1310 questions... hope I'm in the right place! Page 7 1000 Series Truck Talk
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7:42 pm
Pile of Parts
October 13, 2011
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Hi I have cut the pins for the keepers from the back side and have been able to pull drum and shoes this way on old cars.
PDF 9:39 pm
Pile of Parts
September 2, 2011
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Thanks for the tip!!!! Could you explain it a little more? How do you do it? This is the very first drum ive ever pulled so im new to this. Thanks!!
10:24 pm
Golden Anniversary
December 9, 2009
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i haven't done what wallywag is describing, but in theory it should work. on the back of the backing plate, there should be two items that look like the head of nail; these are the pins that anchor the shoes to the backing plate. if you take an angle grinder and grind those heads off, the shoes should come free. new pins will be included with new spring kits, or you could salvage them from a donor axle…
at least that's what i think he is proposing…
john
-
"in the words of Socrates, "i drank what?!"
10:29 pm
Pile of Parts
September 2, 2011
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OOOH! that makes sense!! I will do that as soon as I get the axel back. Its at the welding shop, they are making up the U bolts and bracketry to mount it to the HD springs. I have 2 hardware kits, so that should do all 4 corners.
THANKS!
10:32 pm
Golden Anniversary
December 9, 2009
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"in the words of Socrates, "i drank what?!"
10:56 pm
Golden Anniversary
September 10, 2010
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Thought this might interest you…
http://www.binderplanet.com/fo…..ostcount=2
If you plan on using those backing plates I wouldn't go cutting anything.
10:17 am
Golden Anniversary
December 9, 2009
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that's good info Scott! should be stored and pinned here…
if he were to carefully grind just the heads off the anchor pins, he should be ok shouldn't he?
john
-
"in the words of Socrates, "i drank what?!"
2:15 pm
Golden Anniversary
September 10, 2010
Online
I only stumbled on that a few days ago John,but yea, I thought it was worth bookmarking.
As for the brakes,he should first go to the parts book and see exactly what things look like for his system,not every system has anchor pins. If it does,then sure go ahead and cut the head off. If it still won't come apart then try removing the brake cylinder mounting bolts then there should be nothing holding anything to the backing plate except springs.They would probably pop off the pin with some pulling,likely ruin them but they can be replaced.
He needs to be careful with the drums if the brakes will be reused since many are NLA.
5:53 pm
Pile of Parts
October 13, 2011
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Yea that's the pin I talking about some times you can hold with flat bar and try to pull it thru the retainer like a nail or get the bar under the head of it and then grind it off good luck
6:35 pm
Pile of Parts
September 2, 2011
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It has those pins, I saw them move a little while I was moving stuff. the drums are already toast, I think I can get some used. They look to be the same as on my RA15, so if I cant find any I'll just take those.
I'm parting out a 1500C, the front axel is the same as in my truck, or so it appears. my truck has worn king pins and brakes, the brakes and king pins have just been redone on the parts truck. can I change the hubs from one axel to the other?
Thanks for the help everyone
7:55 pm
Golden Anniversary
September 10, 2010
Online
Before you go swapping things do a little research!
Using the LST you posted the front brakes are 12X3" (04124)
The front axle is an FA-12 (02012)
So,you need to look at the drums and see what numbers are on them,you may have the same ones as in this post…
http://oldihc.org/truck-talk/1…..8;search=1
The drum PN 376424C2 according to the MT-131 (Fig.17-004) is for 1310's with single rear wheels.
I did check and the 1500C would have an FA-28 axle,your wheel end parts from the 1310 will not work.
King pins shouldn't be hard to get;
69971R91 Standard.
530-1040 Raybestos
KA 164 McQuay-Norris
8389B MOOG
.015 OS
134456R91
KA164.015 McQuay-Norris
Raybestos lists all the brake hardware,cyls & shoes.
http://www.raybestos.com/wps/p…..U5UUTIwNTA!
9:53 pm
Pile of Parts
September 2, 2011
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Thanks Scott, I guess I will be replacing parts rather than just doing that. The king pins and such look the same, but looks can be deceiving.
The two axels (FA 12 and FA 28) look EXACTLY the same through my eyes, I'm assuming the spindles/brakes would be different?
I'm working on ordering the drums in that thread you mentioned (Off a 72 dodge 3/4 ton) those are for the front, seems as how all the shoes/cylinders/hardware is the same back and front, those drums should work on the back too correct? that would be awesome to get 4 new drums to go with all this other new stuff I've got.
I pulled the drum/hub off the Dana 60 tonight. much thanks to you guys, I ground the heads off the retainer pins, pulled the cylinder bolts, and one more bolt at the top and everything came off :) the drum is toast, 1/8 inch groove all the way around, and all the hardware is toast. problem, the other side will be the same way, so I have no idea how it all goes together. Can someone post a picture or link me to one of a Dana 60 brake system fully assembled? then I can figure out where all the springs and such go. I have new shoes and all new hardware for it.
Thanks everyone! pictures sunday hopefully.
2:11 pm
Golden Anniversary
September 10, 2010
Online
The King pins were the same with the FA-12,28 & 48,maybe others too(?),but the spindles and wheel end parts on the FA-12 are different. It's not really hard to do unless the pin is frozen in the I-beam.If that's the case it's best to find a tool rental and rent a king pin press (IMO) well worth it to avoid damage and save time/agravation.
It would be prudent to match the drums before buying all 4. The rears could be different (likely) due to axle.
Dana did not make brakes,the brakes are either Wagner or Bendix,I'll check my info for pic's / diagrams.
6:53 pm
Golden Anniversary
September 10, 2010
Online
I think I found what you want regarding a pic/illustration of the brakes. I looked at the MT-131 Fig. 04-4 front brakes for a 1310 (which isn't a bad diagram) and found what appears to be the same set-up…
Open the link and scroll down until you find the heading "Bendix (Ford) Front brake 12" x 3" "
http://www.meritorhvs.com/Meri…..9127_4.pdf
11:34 pm
Pile of Parts
September 2, 2011
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Scottso, I appreciate the time you take to help me out here, you always post great information!
Life has had me by the throat since I last posted, But I have had time to work on my truck, even though I havent had time to be on here.
Got the Dana 60 installed in the truck, looks like it gave the rear about a 2 inch or less lift. with the deck on the downward angle at the front will not require me to raise it up any, so I'm done with suspension modifications as of the moment. Driveshaft will mount up, might be a shade tight but nothing requiring modification. Found a possible source near here for the brake cylinders as well as drums :) I'm not a fan of buying things online, I'd rather call someone I know, like my uncle, who works at a large autoparts store. so far everything I've thrown at him he has found an answer for :)
To contradict myself, I ordered the engine parts online. $950 for
.04 piston and ring set (flattop)
.01 con rod bearings
.454,.454 lift cam
felpro gasket set
lifters
cam bearings
all delivered to the closest town here in AB.
i used northern auto parts as was suggested here.
I got confirmation today (2 weeks later..) that my order had been assembled and shipped. if its here in a week (ya right) Its gonna be tight getting this thing done by grad (may long weekend).
So I've been hauling tail end for the past couple of days.
Got the frame cleaned up, and ready to start building the deck.
Bought some steel (40 ft 3X3X1/4 angle iron, and 40 feet 2X4X1/8 tubing. should be enough? haha I hope so, $400 there…
Got to building tonight, deck will be a whole unit, comes off of the truck with 4 bolts, to make it easier to get on and off for maintenance and upgrades…
Pictures!
Before I got to work tonight
Freebie I pulled out of a junker chevy we had here. 6 bolts and it came out. 4 holes line up on my frame, so I only have to drill 2. that puts the the end of the receiver about 4'8" from the center of the rear axel. Cant beat free!
The steel
The first peice cut. there will be 4 of these running across the frame rails. 80 inches long
The area and the tools I worked with. I used the mig to tack, and took the pieces to our shop where the arc welder is. the MIG is out of gas :(
I dont weld much, and I just started last year, so they aint pretty. but there is a full rod in there at 90 amps, so it should hold :)
Got the receiver mounted up.
hard to see, but its in place and I think its at a decent height. about 20 inches off the ground give or take a few.
Also hard to see, but this bumper was also free. 82 inches long, bottom bolt holes even line up! perfect!!
Hopefully I'll be putting wood on in a week. so I hope
Questions and comments!
11:08 am
Pile of Parts
December 30, 2009
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I would love to see some design drawings of the bed- I have a couple concerns to the strength of it and the strength of the frame. You can use a boatload of iron and still have something that flexes too much.
8:51 am
Pile of Parts
September 2, 2011
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Praise the Lord the site is back!!!!! :)
Been super busy the past couple weeks, getting more done to the deck, frame, brakes, engine, and last night the fuel tank. not sure how much I will cover in this post, as I have to leave for school in 15 minutes.
The deck. its been through several stages, new designs and changes. there are 4 80 inch long 2x4x1/4 steel tubing rails that run perpendicular to the frame. one at the front, one at the rear, and one just behind and one just forward of the overload spring mounts. not perfectly spaced but they will even out the weight a little. the rest of it is a little hard to explain, so I will take a lot of pictures when its done to explain it. I have had my design approved by 2 welding shops as well as my uncle and my dad.
Brakes. thanks to the members posting information here for me. I am able to put the new brake assemblies together the right way relativley easy, and now I understand fully how they work. I got the back two done, cylinders for the front should be here in a week and a bit.
Front drums were in good enough shape to get turned at the local automotive shop. Turned out real nice (no pun intended) I'm gonna paint them red…. just because I can :)
The back left axel seal must have blown out a while ago, so everything was really dirty and greasy. thanks to that the drum was in good shape, and the pads actually had material left on them. I put new axel seals in when I assembled it. the drums were taken apart and cleaned in varsol very thoroughly.
I think thats all for now, I still have 40 or more pictures of everything else so hopefully I'll have more up tonight. questions and comments welcome!
10:40 am
Pile of Parts
December 30, 2009
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Looks like you are doing a fantastic job. My design comments were a bit out of line, but I see a much better application to what you have come up with, than what I was envisioning. Your design will actually twist with the frame and will work well. Do you have any plans for tool boxes beneath the deck? Maybe fenderwells of sorts?
If you do, It works well to use a single axle trailer fender and split (right and left) it to obtain the nice rolled edge and cut the radiused triangular pieces to fill them, or add a step on each side of the fender well. I helped a friend build a flatbed for his duramax and this gave a very nice finished look to it.
If you dont want any toolboxes beneath, disregard.
Great job on doing things right with your brakes. Once all the adjustments are made and the system is bled, you wont regret it.
keep the updates flowing…
OJ
10:53 pm
Pile of Parts
September 2, 2011
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OKEYJOHN, I have been brought up to accept criticism from my elders and superiors, therefore no offense was taken from anything you or anyone has said on here :) I appreciate your comments, they point out flaws in things I do and help me to do a better job. passing the knowledge down.
I do plan to put boxes under the deck. I hope to have one on each side at the front. they will be from the edge of the deck to the springs deep, from the bottom of the deck to the bottom of the cab tall, and in between the 2 deck frame rails long. Those obscure dimensions will make more sense when I get the boxes built. for the rear I may just make a plywood filler that anlges up toward the bumper to give the bottom of the deck a more streamlined look.
Here goes a long post or posts.
Engine, when I took the heads off the engine a while ago, I could get a .025 feeler gauge around each piston. according to the book thats 10 times too much as is allowable. So $1000 of parts was ordered. it arrived here just over a week and a bit ago, so my uncle helped me tear into it. He has been building engines since he was my age and has made 2 pulling trucks in his time. he is quiet the mechanic, and I go to him for a lot of advice.
We tore it apart on the deck of my truck, as the homemade engine stand that we have was only setup for chevy engines and the IH engine pretty much ate it for lunch it was so much bigger.
Engine is getting hot tanked so we werent anal about cleanliness.
Cam looks perfect, same with timing gears. I got a bigger cam and brand new gears, so these ones are available for the price of $1.00 plus shipping if someone needs them.
lifters were discarded upon removal as I have a new set.
Crankpin for rods 1 and 2.
my uncle said every bearing in this engine looks good enough to be put back together and used as is. he was incredibly impressed with how well the engine was built and designed.
(I will be using all new bearings, just to clarify)
Pistons 4 and 6 I believe… or 3 and 5. theoretically the engine ingested metal and these two pistons got it. other than those two the others look reusable!
Distributor gear looks great!
More in next post
11:03 pm
Pile of Parts
September 2, 2011
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Here are the new parts. The kit was originally $850 I think, but I put a bunch of upgrades in it like a bigger cam, moly rings, federal mogul bearings, felpro gaskets, and brass freeze plugs. worth every penny.
Please move your keyboard and mouse away from your mouth before viewing pictures. I am not responsible for shorted out electronics as a result of excessive drooling :)
More deck work!
My brother and I moved my truck across the road (our farm is on both sides) to where the unheated but better furnished shop is. it has a 200 ton press, arc welder, huge vise, huge air compressor, and all the tools. but no concrete and no heat so it is a summer only facility. My brother is a pretty big guy, so we just pushed it.
The battery is still sitting on the frame rails because I open the doors up and listen to music while working on the truck. its a deep cycle battery but i put the 10A charger on it often to keep it charged.
didnt take any during pics, but here are some details. My welding is getting much better, My dad spend a good hour and a half helping me with technique and such. I did some vertical welds as well as horizontal from the underneath. challenging!
The vertical welds will all be dressed up with the MIG, as that is much much easier to do. Not very good light at 9:00 but I managed to get these pics. they will help explain the design.
The angle is welded to the deck frame, and will be bolted to the truck frame. 6 bolts and the deck will come off.
I'll look around, if I have more pics Ill put them up!
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