Pilot bushing


IHC in the early to mid-fifties.

Golden Jubilee
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Post Thu Oct 09, 2014 11:07 am

Pilot bushing

I suppose this is more a question for Nikkinutshop but ill ask everyone, how different are the pilot bushings in the BD220 and a 1952 Ford 239 flathead, thats what I put in my truck and id like to use my old 3 speed just because its been rebuilt and in better shape then anything else id probably end up with and how costly would it be to change the pilot bushing if I went that route?
1952 L-112 Long Bed BD220 3 speed, 4x4.
1962 Dodge Dart 330, 392 Hemi, T56 6 speed manual.
1986 GMC K1500 Jimmy, 396 V8, 700R4, 208C, 4x4.

Golden Jubilee
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Post Thu Oct 09, 2014 1:24 pm

Re: Pilot bushing

Both bushings are round. You are doing this crazy swap, it is up to you to do the research. I don't want to be involved with this build-up. Non of it makes any sense, to me. I thought that your IHC engine was good.
Changing the bushing to fit both Ford and IHC might cost some expensive machine shop time. The only thing all bushings have in common is the spelling.
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Golden Jubilee
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Post Thu Oct 09, 2014 1:35 pm

Re: Pilot bushing

IH always used pilot bearings in the SD/BD engines and most others for that matter.
The OEM bearing your truck would have this bearing;
http://www.fme-cat.com/overlays/part-de ... brandId=NW
Click "Specifications" for the dimensions.

With a little help from my friend Google this is what I found for the FH pilot bearing;
http://www.fme-cat.com/overlays/part-de ... brandId=NW
Compare the dimensions...

All search results;
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=fo ... ot+bearing

You also have to measure the length of the trans. main drive gear (aka input shaft) plus the front bearing retainer (the part the TOB rides on),if they don't match the trans. the FH came with,it probably isn't gonna work.
12 yrs.exp. in IH dealer parts dept.
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Golden Jubilee
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Post Thu Oct 09, 2014 4:02 pm

Re: Pilot bushing

Ethan, I assume you know the pilot bearing is pressed into the flywheel gear (Starter gear turns flywheel gear)

Pilot bearing ID of Flat Head (.669") is .078" larger than the BD 220 pilot bearing ID (.591") for your 3 Spd tranny... If you Mic your pilot shaft on your 3 spd tranny it is most likely only .002" Max smaller (.589") than the BD 220 Pilot Bearing ID so you will be looking for a special bearing or machining flywheel to press in a plug to accept BD 220 pilot bearing..... What bell housing are you using?? Tranny bolts to Bell housing.....

There are many things that have to match to make this work...Scottso pointed out some others.

Making sure it works on paper with all the pieces and numbers is the best approach. Now you may be looking for the matching tranny for the Flat Head. Best to find this out before you sell the 220 engine. Takes time to research and catch all the possible issues.
Rich
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1950 L112 International pickup

Golden Jubilee
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Post Thu Oct 09, 2014 4:44 pm

Re: Pilot bushing

I will add also that the input bearing retainer is WHAT CENTERS the trans to the crankshaft, so whatever bellhouseing you use must be centerbored to the input bearing retainer size, no a loose fit is not acceptable. the bell must be centered to the crankshaft and dowelled in place. Are you equipped to handle this?
With a complete machine-shop this is doable, but if you are not a machinist and do not have a mill ( to adapt the bell bore to the IHC trans) nor the dial indicator to center the bell on the engine, nor the reamers and dowel pins, how are you going to do what needs to be done?

Golden Jubilee
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Post Thu Oct 09, 2014 5:24 pm

Re: Pilot bushing

I'm sitting here looking at a Ford Flathead and I have an IH frame outside. This is not an easy fix, and I have the tools. There is more to lose than gained, so I'm not going to get involved. The Ford Flathead is not as powerful as the SD220.
There are so many better options. Trying to find a motor shop to repair a Flatty is going to be a difficult situation.
I vote for keeping the Binder engine and making a recording of Flathead.
I would rather have tools I do not need than to need tools I do not have
Artificial intelligence is no match for real stupidity....
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Golden Jubilee
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Post Thu Oct 09, 2014 8:00 pm

Re: Pilot bushing

Let's talk "pilot."

As has been mentioned, the front bearing retainer on the transmission is the "pilot" for the transmission to fit the bellhousing. And the pilot BEARING is only part of your struggles. To mate a particular transmission to a particular engine, the bellhousing DEPTH must also be dealt with. As a "for example," AMC used two bellhousing depths for their V8's, a 6-1/2" deep bell and an 8" bell. The 8" bell fits the Borg-Warner T-10 4-speed, while almost every other transmission for an AMC uses the 6-1/2" bell. That includes the T-5 and the SR4. I know we're not talking AMC's in your case, but your bellhousing depth is as critical as any other dimension to consider.

I'm with nikkinutshop...I don't foresee a good ending.
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Golden Jubilee
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Post Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:28 pm

Re: Pilot bushing

Yes, I thought Scott had mentioned that, but see he said transmission length, and not input shaft. As with any modification, it takes a lot of work to re-engineer and not so much to bugger everything up. With such basic lack of understanding of what is involved, I too see a pile of parts.

Golden Jubilee
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Post Fri Oct 10, 2014 10:13 am

Re: Pilot bushing

to nikkinutshop - I live 15 minutes from the flathead specialist in these parts he rebuilds and modify's V8's V12's I4 I6 and I8's anything flathead he has it.

to the rest I do work in a machine shop with an ex-General Motors engineering manager and he's helping me with all of this all it's really costing me to do this swap is my own sweat because Im performing all the labor :p1003: he's just guiding me through the process and helping me with measurements

back to the flathead being underpowered, it may not make that much more power but it gets up to speed a lot quicker and it can be made to have much more power then the 220 if you were willing to spend the money (which I dont see the need) a stock 1952 Mercury 255 flathead has 125 horse power with a 2 barrel and for such little power that motor performs very well in my opinion, the 239 I have is 110

And I'm not selling the 220, I built a small shop in my back yard and im just going to set it aside for now and I have a Borg Warner I think it's a T18 4 speed for the flathead which im using for measuring and there's all kinds of adapter bell housings for almost every transmission you can think of for the flathead, I was told a first generation Chevy S10 5 speed OD would be a good choice for my application but I'd rather keep my 3 speed and add a OD unit from Gearvendors,

We'll just have to see how it turns out it should be done and driving before christmas (or before december period) and I'll put up pictures and try to make a video of how it does but I see a very good outcome and am quite excited about it :t0201:
1952 L-112 Long Bed BD220 3 speed, 4x4.
1962 Dodge Dart 330, 392 Hemi, T56 6 speed manual.
1986 GMC K1500 Jimmy, 396 V8, 700R4, 208C, 4x4.

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Post Fri Oct 10, 2014 10:35 am

Re: Pilot bushing

I can see both sides of this issue, those who have in the past watched folks attempt things and end up with a pile of parts, and I know that some of the folks here are real capable of doing intensive building/modifications. I also see with your listing of the help you have that you just might be able to pull of this build. More power to you. I look forward to seeing the results.

Lloyd
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