Oil back up


IHC in the early to mid-fifties.

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Yard Art
Yard Art

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Post Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:33 pm

Oil back up

So a few days ago I was tooling around to pick up the kids in my '53 IH R110 Travel All and she started sputtering and smoking. I decided my 1st step was to change the spark plugs. Jenny (what we call the bus) ran great for two more days. On day 6 or seven the smoke was back. I popped the hood and noticed the oil wasn't moving in the top of engine So I drained the oil. Sprayed some motor flush type stuff up through spark plug holes. Cranked her up and let her idle...still no movement. Went for a spin around the block (literally) a little smoke but the dipstick still read empty. Now I 'm thinking what is going on???!!?
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Golden Jubilee
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Post Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:53 pm

Re: Oil back up

Couple of thinks could be going on. Others will chime in too. Sounds like the oil quit flowing by your description. I'm not real familiar with the route the oil takes in what sequence, but I think the oil is pumped from the oil pan through the filter then to the top of the engine where it flows down through the openings to the pan and of course it does it over and over. On it's passage up to the valve cover it may also be directed through various other passages that require it to be under pressure. If the oil stopped flowing, see if the pump still pumps, the filter isn't clogged and if any of the other passages are getting their oil. If you have an oil pressure gauge and it's making usual pressure, could probably eliminate the pump (depending on where the pressure gauge takes it's reading). When was the last filter change? Is there even oil on the dipstick? (I believe you said there wasn't) Did it all leak out? If so where did it come out? Is there oil on the under carriage of your Travelall? Puddles on the ground where you park? Came from somewhere if so. What does the tail pipe look like inside? Look like black sooty residue in it? Could be leaking from the valve guides into a cylinder(s). Spark plugs look oily or sooty?
Where was the smoke coming out? From the tail pipe? From the breather? Both? Any other places? If you have a temperature gauge, how hot did it read?
Many possibilities. If the engine isn't getting the oil it needs it will begin to sputter as the friction heats up the engine until one or more pistons seize in the cylinders. NOT good! Running it long enough to test oil pressure or other trouble shooting is about all you want to run it until the problem is solved. No excursions without sufficient oil in the engine! Let us know what you find.
L110 owner since 1974, finally rebuilt 2014.

Golden Jubilee
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Post Wed Apr 02, 2014 3:21 pm

Re: Oil back up

The filter is a no pressure drain-back by-pass POS thingee and it will make no difference even if it were removed and thrown away. It is unlikely that this filter system can be changed for something more effective.
I don't knowhow much oil you were expecting to see under the valve cover. Your description is not clear! Do you see oil in the valve cover and it is not draining back, or do you not see any oil inside the V-cover? After your t-all sits for a while, does the oil return and show on the dip-stick? I have no idea what good spraying some sh-- into the combustion chamber would fix. Does the tailpipe show sign of wetness that might be oily? Are there any leaks? What is the oil pressure? If the pressure is very high, it could indicate that there is a blockage and the oil is not getting around the engine. Very low pressure could indicate a worn out pump or excessive clearance in the lubricated moving surfaces in the engine. I am thinking that you should be seeking some professional help, based on your original post.
If the oil is not leaking out and there was some in the crankcase at one time, it has to have gone somewhere. Is it trapped in the valve cover or the side cover behind the distributor? How much smoke are we talking about. Do you see just a little smoke, or is your t-all a real mosquito killer that fills the roadway with vision blocking smoke? Check the cooling system for oil in the coolant. Maybe, just maybe. Did you ever check the oil or hopefully change it before driving the t-all? Going back to the filter. The operation of that engine would not be changed if the filter supply tube er blocked. A very little oil is taken from the engine oil system, under pressure and measured through an orifice then after trickling through the filter media, it is allowed to drain back into the crankcase, not under pressure. No oil goes from the filter to pressure lubricated parts. If this were my t-all, I would bouncing that original engine into the scrap for recycling and installing a modern engine. Check out the L<R<and S builds there are options that work. rebuilding Old IOHC engine is off the hook expensive and an new crate engine can be purchased for much less.
I would rather have tools I do not need than to need tools I do not have
Artificial intelligence is no match for real stupidity....

Golden Jubilee
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Post Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:37 pm

Re: Oil back up

I agree with Nikki on the info, most BD 220- 240 take 8 quarts, if your putting 5 in, and wont show, its not enough, the valve train is oiled thru a couple of head bolts, some guys dont notice when assembling a motor. Or try Rislone with your next oil change, the stuff cleans well.
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Golden Jubilee
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Post Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:00 pm

Re: Oil back up

kevin wrote:I agree with Nikki on the info, most BD 220- 240 take 8 quarts, if your putting 5 in, and wont show, its not enough, the valve train is oiled thru a couple of head bolts, some guys dont notice when assembling a motor. Or try Rislone with your next oil change, the stuff cleans well.


yes, there is a specific headbolt with stepped shoulder to allow oil up into rocker shaft, if you or someone else removed any bolts and didn't put in same hole the passage to top end is plugged

there shouldn't necessarily be oil slinging everywhere on top but should be present coming out of rockers onto tops of valves and weeping around locator springs on shaft

7 quarts for pan 1 more for filter,
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Golden Jubilee
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Post Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:27 pm

Re: Oil back up

OK guys, I read the first post 3 times. The way I read it is the oil is staying in the valve cover, as not moving down to the pan. this will cause smoke as the intake guides are flooded with oil and it gets sucked into the combustion chamber and burnt. It sounds like the return oil drain back holes are plugged in the head or block. Should not be hard to fix, remove the valve cover and look to see if you can see the blockage in the return holes. If blocked clear them with a stout piece of wire, pushing it down the hole. If need be a little air pressure would blow the offending sludge to the pan. Rislone and some short mileage oil changes with Rislone each time should clean her up.
Bill
KB owner since 1972 and still loving it.
Retired Lineman, mechanic, fabricator, retired motorcycle racer.
South Amherst, Ohio
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Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

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Post Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:31 pm

Re: Oil back up

yea, kind of hard to decipher exactly what he's saying,

I think you are right, but I thought the return passages on a SD head were pretty big,

I gotta go look at my spare in the garage
Gentle Men! you can't fight in here! This is the war room!
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Yard Art
Yard Art

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Post Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:51 pm

Re: Oil back up

Yes I'm sure I put enough oil in. Yes I took out the old filter. Ran some STP through it. Bailed the remaining oil out of the filter case with a plastic cup. (I guess this should've been my sign that I had some blockage.) Put 7.5 quarts of oil in. Yes the oil is staying on top of the valves and not flowing back through filter. I guess I'm going to put down some cat liter and attempt to get oil filter case and valve cover off. KYP (Keep y'all posted)...



p.s. Definitely putting a crate motor in if all this doesn't work out...
Great days begin with fantastic mornings!

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

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Post Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:27 pm

Re: Oil back up

A minor point, but the oil should return to the oil pan through some cast into the block galleries, definitely not the filter. In the bad old daze these engines were often as not neglected an run without a proper thermostat and the engines ran way too cool. The long overdue oil change left deposits everywhere, including the return galleries. Spraying, washing and soaking with rattle cans of magic potion will never fix a situation like what may exist in your engine.
If you decide to clear the oil return galleries, as was described in an earlier post, you should remove the oilpan and give it a good cleaning. I am sure that it has a deep layer of sludge in the bottom. Take extreme care to avoid skin contact with any of the sludge. It may have been their for decades and it may contain Ethyl Lead deposits and some of the other products of combustion are really bad. In the old days, it used to be said, " There are no old mechanics". Many of them died from complications from exposure to the sludge. Nitrile gloves are very inexpensive and a good way to protect one's hands. For entertainment, you might like to stretch one of the gloves over your head and inflate it slightly. Your kids will love it.
I would rather have tools I do not need than to need tools I do not have
Artificial intelligence is no match for real stupidity....
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Yard Art
Yard Art

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Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2013 11:37 am

Location: Albuquerque

Post Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:36 pm

Re: Oil back up

Soooooooooo, my brother and I just came in from an hour or so of flashlight and spot light tinkering on the bus. It would appear that I have a simple timing, reset distributor points (in the daylight tomorrow) fuel filter (looks fairly new but may replace anyway), or carb updating/cleaning/rebuild may be needed. The clog was from the oil filter not being cleaned out properly :t1812: (done!!) What a b____! :t9409: big hands + small spaces = pure aggravation. No more smoke though :yay: ! She's still struggling a bit, better for cruising around, but no backfiring and no smut on spark plugs. I'll post some pics of Jenny's engine bay a little later this week.Thanks for all the info and super prompt responses!!
Great days begin with fantastic mornings!
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