Straight 6

Im just curious about this since Ive seen it done with Chev's if you raised the engine compression and did all possible to up the performance of an IH 6 what do you guys think is the most power possible you could get out of one? just an interesting thought.

The SD and BD engines were not fond of high RPM's. They don't like much over 3600 RPM, with 4000 rpm probably being an absolute maximum. The SD in particular had a reputation of dropping valves when operated at higher RPM's.

BUT...

The C-221, C-263, C-291, and C-301 farm tractor engines were VERY similar to the SD and BD truck engines...and tractor pullers have built them to hold together at around 6000 rpm. BUT that's a pretty specialized application, and those tractors are only running wide open for 300 feet at a time.

I've been told that Sonny at Bullet Cams knows a bit about what it takes to build one of these sixes to run. The website is http://bulletcams.com/ . I've also heard that Jeff at Murphy Motor Service knows his way around these tractor engines...so some of the tech should be transferable to the truck engine as well. Their website is http://www.murphysmotorservice.com/ .

And Kevin here on this site has some experience with Keystone Turbo; that's his truck in the photos here on their website: http://www.keystoneturbollc.com/id80.html .

These sites, and a call to Sonny, should head you in the direction you're talking of. And if you go there...bring money. LOTS of money.

The SD and BD engines were not fond of high RPM's. They don't like much over 3600 RPM, with 4000 rpm probably being an absolute maximum. The SD in particular had a reputation of dropping valves when operated at higher RPM's.

BUT...

The C-221, C-263, C-291, and C-301 farm tractor engines were VERY similar to the SD and BD truck engines...and tractor pullers have built them to hold together at around 6000 rpm. BUT that's a pretty specialized application, and those tractors are only running wide open for 300 feet at a time.

I've been told that Sonny at Bullet Cams knows a bit about what it takes to build one of these sixes to run. The website is http://bulletcams.com/ . I've also heard that Jeff at Murphy Motor Service knows his way around these tractor engines...so some of the tech should be transferable to the truck engine as well. Their website is http://www.murphysmotorservice.com/ .

And Kevin here on this site has some experience with Keystone Turbo; that's his truck in the photos here on their website: http://www.keystoneturbollc.com/id80.html .

These sites, and a call to Sonny, should head you in the direction you're talking of. And if you go there...bring money. LOTS of money.

Thanks! and its gotta be better then a 16,000 dollar crate engine which is what i was quoted by Chrysler/Mopar

Several ways of converting to electronic ignition on these old trucks. Pertronics conversion would probably be the easiest, because it uses your original distributor. [url][/url]

http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/show ... or+Upgrade

BUT...by modifying the distributor shaft to match your original, you can adapt an HEI distributor from an early '80's Chevy inline six. Problem with that is, the Chevy distributor rotates the wrong direction. So the centrifugal advance has to be modified for reverse rotation, and the vacuum advance from the HEI needs to be changed. That can be accomplished, I'm told, by using an Oldsmobile vacuum advance and modifying the connection to the breaker plate and the distributor housing itself.

http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98133

AND...if you know anything about the Chevy six distributor, you might also know that it is virtually identical to the AMC six distributor. So what does THAT mean? That means that the same sort of mods used on a Chevy HEI to make it fit can also be used on a Motorcraft Duraspark distributor from an AMC six.

NOW...whether any of this information is helpful will be totally up to you. The folks over at Binder Plantet have done some of the homework for you. http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/index.php

http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7063

Several ways of converting to electronic ignition on these old trucks. Pertronics conversion would probably be the easiest, because it uses your original distributor.

BUT...by modifying the distributor shaft to match your original, you can adapt an HEI distributor from an early '80's Chevy inline six. Problem with that is, the Chevy distributor rotates the wrong direction. So the centrifugal advance has to be modified for reverse rotation, and the vacuum advance from the HEI needs to be changed. That can be accomplished, I'm told, by using an Oldsmobile vacuum advance and modifying the connection to the breaker plate and the distributor housing itself.
Here's a pic of the distributor shaft modification: http://s16.photobucket.com/user/buzzman72/media/hei-ihc-6-450-1.jpg.html?sort=6&o=92

AND...if you know anything about the Chevy six distributor, you might also know that it is virtually identical to the AMC six distributor. So what does THAT mean? That means that the same sort of mods used on a Chevy HEI to make it fit can also be used on a Motorcraft Duraspark distributor from an AMC six.

NOW...whether any of this information is helpful will be totally up to you. The folks over at Binder Plantet have done some of the homework for you. http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/index.php

whats the advantage of having a electronic ignition?

Rather than risk injecting my own opinions...check out this link:

http://www.jetav8r.com/Vision/Ignition/CDI.html

Rather than risk injecting my own opinions...check out this link:

http://www.jetav8r.com/Vision/Ignition/CDI.html

would it be a bad idea to boost the compression in a BD-220? and then add a turbo onto that?

PERSONAL OPINION is that if you're going to add a turbo, you don't want the compression to be much higher than stock...and here's why:

What does a turbocharger do?

It pressurized [compresses] the intake charge BEFORE it enters the combustion chamber. Then the piston compresses THAT, if your engine is healthy. Having a turbo puts more stress on the sealing capabilities of both your rings and your valves, PLUS it also stresses the head gasket more. If ANY of these components are weak, the turbo will likely cause them to fail.

Atmospheric pressure is around 14.7 pounds per square inch at sea level. In a street-driven gasoline engine--NOT an all-out race engine--the so-called "rule of thumb" is to limit boost to 7 to 9 psi of boost. That would result in a charge pressure [boost + atmospheric] 21 to 23 psi. Now imagine compressing that by a factor of 7.5 to 1...now you're talking about a theoretical pressure in each cylinder of [23 x 7.5, when your stock compression ratio is 7.5:1] 172.5 psi..as compared to [14.7 x 7.5] 110.25 psi in your stock engine. That's a 56% increase in cylinder pressure to start with.

And we haven't even started talking about what raising the compression to 8.5 or 9.0 to 1 would do. At 8.5:1, the naturally aspirated cylinder pressure would be just under 125 psi...and adding 9 pounds of boost would put cylinder pressures into the 195 psi range. 9.0:1 compression would change those numbers to 132 and 207 psi, respectively...all in an engine that was designed to seal in 110 psi to begin with. At 9.0:1 compression, plus 9 pounds of boost, you've nearly doubled the cylinder pressure.

And that doesn't even address the issue of the extra heat that compression, and that "bigger bang" in the cylinders, is going to generate.

So I'll stop there for now. These days, on the panther wizz they sell for regular gas, 9.0:1 compression is probably marginal. If you can get an honest 93 octane premium in your area, you MIGHT get by running a turbo on that 9.0:1 engine...but you may have to add water injection, to keep detonation at bay. [Since water doesn't burn, you're losing some of what you paid for with the turbo...something else to think about.]

BUT if you add compression...if your stock ignition is marginal, the added pressure might whiff out a wimpy spark, leading to other problems...which is why I mentioned electronic ignition to begin with.

PERSONAL OPINION is that if you're going to add a turbo, you don't want the compression to be much higher than stock...and here's why:

What does a turbocharger do?

It pressurized [compresses] the intake charge BEFORE it enters the combustion chamber. Then the piston compresses THAT, if your engine is healthy. Having a turbo puts more stress on the sealing capabilities of both your rings and your valves, PLUS it also stresses the head gasket more. If ANY of these components are weak, the turbo will likely cause them to fail.

Atmospheric pressure is around 14.7 pounds per square inch at sea level. In a street-driven gasoline engine--NOT an all-out race engine--the so-called "rule of thumb" is to limit boost to 7 to 9 psi of boost. That would result in a charge pressure [boost + atmospheric] 21 to 23 psi. Now imagine compressing that by a factor of 7.5 to 1...now you're talking about a theoretical pressure in each cylinder of [23 x 7.5, when your stock compression ratio is 7.5:1] 172.5 psi..as compared to [14.7 x 7.5] 110.25 psi in your stock engine. That's a 56% increase in cylinder pressure to start with.

And we haven't even started talking about what raising the compression to 8.5 or 9.0 to 1 would do. At 8.5:1, the naturally aspirated cylinder pressure would be just under 125 psi...and adding 9 pounds of boost would put cylinder pressures into the 195 psi range. 9.0:1 compression would change those numbers to 132 and 207 psi, respectively...all in an engine that was designed to seal in 110 psi to begin with. At 9.0:1 compression, plus 9 pounds of boost, you've nearly doubled the cylinder pressure.

And that doesn't even address the issue of the extra heat that compression, and that "bigger bang" in the cylinders, is going to generate.

So I'll stop there for now. These days, on the panther wizz they sell for regular gas, 9.0:1 compression is probably marginal. If you can get an honest 93 octane premium in your area, you MIGHT get by running a turbo on that 9.0:1 engine...but you may have to add water injection, to keep detonation at bay. [Since water doesn't burn, you're losing some of what you paid for with the turbo...something else to think about.]

BUT if you add compression...if your stock ignition is marginal, the added pressure might whiff out a wimpy spark, leading to other problems...which is why I mentioned electronic ignition to begin with.

Thanks for the advice! I figured since this is my first project and on a budget i'd start with what I had and i'll probably upgrade the whole thing short of fuel injection and a computer system.

$16,000???? That is the price of a crate HEMI.
Very good explanation, B72.