Over heat


IHC in the early to mid-fifties.

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

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Post Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:45 pm

Over heat

Ok so my truck ran about 215-220 degrees not for a long time but when i got up in the drive way and cut it it was steaming a little bit is the engine still ok? i have synthetic oil in it and ive been told that will save your engine in a case like this
1952 L-112 Long Bed BD220 3 speed, 4x4.
1962 Dodge Dart 330, 392 Hemi, T56 6 speed manual.
1986 GMC K1500 Jimmy, 396 V8, 700R4, 208C, 4x4.

Yard Art
Yard Art

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Post Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:08 pm

Re: Over heat

It's probably fine, but I'd figure out what's causing it to overheat. Synthetic oil probably won't buy you much protection in overheat, other than not cooking the oil. Synthetic is probably not very cost-effective in these older engines either, as you still probably need to change the oil out pretty regularly--and the cost savings/protection gains come from longer drain intervals. Also, newer oils don't have the protection for the solid non-roller lifters, so I'd probably just run a good dino oil possibly with some zinc added.

The big problem with overheating engines is usually with aluminum heads, as they will easily warp. The large, cast iron heads of these trucks aren't super prone to warping, and if it was not for a long duration you haven't likely hurt anything. If you start developing a head gasket leak or something, you should notice and that could indicate a problem.

I've overheated plenty of engines without any long-term effects, except the car that got so hot it burned to the ground. :whistling2:

Golden Jubilee
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Post Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:15 pm

Re: Over heat

iroc409 wrote:It's probably fine, but I'd figure out what's causing it to overheat. Synthetic oil probably won't buy you much protection in overheat, other than not cooking the oil. Synthetic is probably not very cost-effective in these older engines either, as you still probably need to change the oil out pretty regularly--and the cost savings/protection gains come from longer drain intervals. Also, newer oils don't have the protection for the solid non-roller lifters, so I'd probably just run a good dino oil possibly with some zinc added.

The big problem with overheating engines is usually with aluminum heads, as they will easily warp. The large, cast iron heads of these trucks aren't super prone to warping, and if it was not for a long duration you haven't likely hurt anything. If you start developing a head gasket leak or something, you should notice and that could indicate a problem.

I've overheated plenty of engines without any long-term effects, except the car that got so hot it burned to the ground. :whistling2:

It ran hot because i dont have any coolant in it i just put a brand new aluminum radiator in and i wanted to wait to put coolant in because im putting a new heater in also and it would be a waste, but being its been 40 degrees here it runs for a little while not even reaching 130 degrees so i went around the block once it was fine went half way again turned around and when i got 1/3 away from my house it started to heat up
1952 L-112 Long Bed BD220 3 speed, 4x4.
1962 Dodge Dart 330, 392 Hemi, T56 6 speed manual.
1986 GMC K1500 Jimmy, 396 V8, 700R4, 208C, 4x4.

Golden Jubilee
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Post Sun Dec 15, 2013 3:27 pm

Re: Over heat

OMG, where to start? So, I will treat this like I would if I were talking to one of my kids when they were in elementary school. You have done a very bad thing and you should not do this again. The coolant is there to do exactly what its name suggests. The coolant absorbs the heat from the engine block and transfers the heat to the radiator where once again the heat is transferred to the passing air on the outside of the radiator and round and round it goes. If the coolant medium is removed from the chain of events it is very likely that some serious damage will happen if enough heat has been built up inside the engine. The majority of the heat from an engine is from the internal combustion and much of the rest is heat from friction. There are carefully designed clearances built into an engine, and in this situation, the piston to cylinder walls would be most at risk. It is most likely that the pistons are made of aluminum and this alloy has a much great expansion rate than the cast iron block. If the clearance is reduced to where it becomes an interference fit the friction heat will rise very rapidly. In only a few seconds the vicious circle of heat build up from several sources will cause the piston to start leaving metal behind and the engine, at this point, is in danger of seizing.
I do not think that your choice of a synthetic oils was a good idea based on reality. Synthetic oils have come into fashion to be compatible with what goes on inside a very modern engine, non of which you will find inside your OLD IHC, other than internal combustion. Your engine has flat cam followers, not roller followers like many engines built in the last decade. Roller followers are not something new, Detroit two stroke engines have had them for fifty years, but your Binder does not have them... Now comes the question, what oil should I be using in my IH. Cummins continued to use flat tappets in their B series engines through the two valve per cylinder series. Cummins recommend using 15-40 Chevron and Detroit Diesel also recommend using 15-40. There must be a very good reason. If I were to run an engine without coolant, where I was a mechanic, I would expect to get fired. It is that serious.
Because of the required high oil change intervals suggested for these old Binders, using a synthetic is not cost effective first and this is after knowing that this oil is not designed for the application. The oil filtering system in these old Binder motors is a by-pass system that borders on being of little value. In fact, you can remove the filter sock and continue to run the engine and little or nothing will change. The by-pass filter is a drain back system which returns the oil to the oil pan and not to the moving parts of the engine. Ford sold tens of millions of their Flathead engines without filters and only a few ever had a by-pass filter on them, often dealer installed. The oil change interval on the Ford was high as it was on the Binders. this was to totally remove the build up of contaminates with the oil change. Many Ford Flathead engines had a 6 inch round panel with the oil drain plug built into it. It was expected that the mechanic would put his hand into the oil pan and scrape out the settled out sludge. The use of Ethyl lead in the fuel to control the octane would settle out in the sludge also. Back in the day it was said, with much truth, "There are no old mechanics" and it was true because of the toxins and carcinogens that mechanics were in contact with.
If you are worried about wasting a little mixed coolant, run straight water. When you finally get around to putting proper coolant into the cooling system, just drain the water and follow the instructions on the antifreeze container. Some coolant is pre-mixed and traditionally, coolant must be mixed 50% with clean water. It the water that you drink is really terrible tasting, it might be advisable to buy and use distilled water for the coolant mix, but this is most likely another over-kill situation and not necessary.
Always remember that your IHC pickup is a rough and tumble slow moving truck that was designed to do some serious work with a minimum amount of service. I am old enough to remember when money was really short and many of these trucks did not get the service they should have had, and is reasonable to assume that the engines may have suffered for it, just a little. As short at the cash may have been, back in the day, my Father and the other vehicle owners never ran without coolant. I remember Dad saying that he ran home heating oil as coolant when antifreeze was not available. Not such a bad idea, really. There was a tractor company called Rumley Oil Pull and as the name suggests, there was oil involved, and it was the coolant in the thermal syphon cooling system. Several high performance motorcycle engines use oil to transfer the heat out of the engine. Don't even think about it!
Just for interest and to add a level of confusion to the mix, I will add this little tid-bit. I am using a Ford Flathead 1947 V8, model C69A in our 1940 Ford. The engine has an added Eaton supercharger and TEC3r electronic engine management. Rather than leaving the original oiling system original and without pressurized filtering, I modified the oil pump for full flow filtering. First, the bottom of the oilpump was replace with a blanking plate and a carefully placed ORB fitting. After that, the oilpump was placed into the lathe and the housing was reamed out to take a bronze bushing that prevented 99% of the oil from going up the pump body and into the engine block where it would be distributed to the rotating surfaces through the drilled oil galleries. After the oil leaves the pump, now through the bottom plate and ORB fitting, the oil is taken, under pressure, out of the oilpan with a bulkhead fitting and on to an external filter. After the filter, the oil is returned to the engine block in a newly drilled and taped location, near where the original oil pressure sender is located at the top of the original oil distribution gallery. I looked at the situation for days and very suddenly and without warning, in the middle of the night, the solution came to me. Does it work? Yes, or I would not mention it.
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Golden Jubilee
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Post Sun Dec 15, 2013 4:20 pm

Re: Over heat

you should NEVER run without ANY coolant, :t3717:

at least put water in, or pee in it. ****! :t10512:

these trucks are tough, I blew a fan thru my radiator once and couldn't stop where I was, had to drive another 1/2 mile to a safe spot,

the paint was literally boiling on the head by the manifold when I finally could park it., I towed it home, put a new fan and radiator in and drove another 70,000 miles with no issue,

but if you are determined to blow up your truck you can and Will succeed. :t3724:
Gentle Men! you can't fight in here! This is the war room!

Golden Jubilee
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Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:06 pm

Post Sun Dec 15, 2013 5:00 pm

Re: Over heat

well... this has been quite a conversation, i'll try to remember this I think now is the time to just let it sit untill i get the heater put in, i can try to find 15W40 Ive never seen it, I asked a friend who works on Binders last time i changed the oil and he said straight 30 and i asked if 10W30 was alright and he said yes, Im extremely confused by the whole situation :bashhead:
1952 L-112 Long Bed BD220 3 speed, 4x4.
1962 Dodge Dart 330, 392 Hemi, T56 6 speed manual.
1986 GMC K1500 Jimmy, 396 V8, 700R4, 208C, 4x4.

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

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Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:45 pm

Location: Canada's left Coast

Post Sun Dec 15, 2013 5:54 pm

Re: Over heat

15-40 is one of the most common of oils. Every highway truck has a belly full of it. NAPA sell it as does Pep Boyz. Walmart Sell 15-40. I had been buying my 15-40 at KENWORTH TRUCKS. They have it in litres, four litre jugs and 20 litre pails and I have seen it in the showroom in 205 litre barrels. Where I worked, we had 15-40 delivered in bulk and at any one time there was 15,000 litres of it on tap. There was 10,000 litres of coolant, 1000 litres of SCHAEFER SYNTHETIC gear oil 200 litres of pressurised grease and DEXTRON III was available from a 2000 litre storage tank. It all was available to the mechanic at each work station from overhead recoiled hoses.
Do not take the detergent oil designation that you will see on the can as containing soap that will loosen up all of the deposited dirt and make a problem for you. The detergent designation has something to do with particulate suspension and should not be something for you to worry about at this point. For what it is worth, please change the silly filter from time to time. Even though the by-pass filter is sort of mediocre at best, it does what little it does rather well, within the design.
Something that is not well known and certainly not fully understood because it is not what some persons like to hear, a full flow oil filter does not filter all of the oil that is sent it's way. A common oil pump that is in many engines could easily split any spin-on filter if it were not for the over-pressure valve that many pumps have internally. There is a by-pass valve in many oil filters that responds to over-pressure and will pass the oil around the filter medium rather than risk blowing up the canister housing. A very dirty filter will increase the by-pass function. I always buy the best oil filter that I can get and in my case, I always use the CUMMINS FLEETGAURD series. Even my shop compressor has a very large FLEETGAURD air filter and the INGERSOL T30-242 barks like an angry dog and makes 19.7 cfm at 175 psi.
Your OLD Binder is not your Grandmother and it will not bake oatmeal cookies for you if you give it synthetic oil to make it feel better. If your truck has suffered any indignities over its service life, synthetic oil will not fix the situation and it could make your engines problems, is it has any, much worse if the oil is not designed for the job.
This forum has ARCHIVES that are full of so much really important information and I am thinking that much of it is being ignored. Maybe the ARCHIVES are not obvious enough and get passed over. It just seems redundant and rather silly to have to tell the story of how a carburetor works and why the distributor should not be bolted down tight over and over because no one took the chance and took a "good-look". I am not saying that this is the case here, but it has happened.
Enjoy your truck. Don't be afraid to PM me.
I would rather have tools I do not need than to need tools I do not have
Artificial intelligence is no match for real stupidity....

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

Posts: 455

Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:06 pm

Post Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:10 pm

Re: Over heat

nikkinutshop wrote:15-40 is one of the most common of oils. Every highway truck has a belly full of it. NAPA sell it as does Pep Boyz. Walmart Sell 15-40. I had been buying my 15-40 at KENWORTH TRUCKS. They have it in litres, four litre jugs and 20 litre pails and I have seen it in the showroom in 205 litre barrels. Where I worked, we had 15-40 delivered in bulk and at any one time there was 15,000 litres of it on tap. There was 10,000 litres of coolant, 1000 litres of SCHAEFER SYNTHETIC gear oil 200 litres of pressurised grease and DEXTRON III was available from a 2000 litre storage tank. It all was available to the mechanic at each work station from overhead recoiled hoses.
Do not take the detergent oil designation that you will see on the can as containing soap that will loosen up all of the deposited dirt and make a problem for you. The detergent designation has something to do with particulate suspension and should not be something for you to worry about at this point. For what it is worth, please change the silly filter from time to time. Even though the by-pass filter is sort of mediocre at best, it does what little it does rather well, within the design.
Something that is not well known and certainly not fully understood because it is not what some persons like to hear, a full flow oil filter does not filter all of the oil that is sent it's way. A common oil pump that is in many engines could easily split any spin-on filter if it were not for the over-pressure valve that many pumps have internally. There is a by-pass valve in many oil filters that responds to over-pressure and will pass the oil around the filter medium rather than risk blowing up the canister housing. A very dirty filter will increase the by-pass function. I always buy the best oil filter that I can get and in my case, I always use the CUMMINS FLEETGAURD series. Even my shop compressor has a very large FLEETGAURD air filter and the INGERSOL T30-242 barks like an angry dog and makes 19.7 cfm at 175 psi.
Your OLD Binder is not your Grandmother and it will not bake oatmeal cookies for you if you give it synthetic oil to make it feel better. If your truck has suffered any indignities over its service life, synthetic oil will not fix the situation and it could make your engines problems, is it has any, much worse if the oil is not designed for the job.
This forum has ARCHIVES that are full of so much really important information and I am thinking that much of it is being ignored. Maybe the ARCHIVES are not obvious enough and get passed over. It just seems redundant and rather silly to have to tell the story of how a carburetor works and why the distributor should not be bolted down tight over and over because no one took the chance and took a "good-look". I am not saying that this is the case here, but it has happened.
Enjoy your truck. Don't be afraid to PM me.

Well i have to change the oil pan gasket anyway so I'll probably put that 15-40 in then, is it alright if the truck just sits till the 24th and not be touched what so ever?
1952 L-112 Long Bed BD220 3 speed, 4x4.
1962 Dodge Dart 330, 392 Hemi, T56 6 speed manual.
1986 GMC K1500 Jimmy, 396 V8, 700R4, 208C, 4x4.

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

Posts: 8955

Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:45 pm

Location: Canada's left Coast

Post Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:57 pm

Re: Over heat

No problem if you let it sit for a year, After all, how long did it sit before you rescued it? When you take the oil pan off, please check the flange where the bolts go.. It is not uncommon to see the flange with some distortion from being over tightened the mating surface will have high and low areas from where the bolts have been over tightened. Your pan may not have this problem, but you should check. Another good piece of advice is to glue the gasket to the pan flange with part number 1050026 or the exact same product from LOCTITE IS 30517. These are a tacky product that will hold the pan gasket in place while you try to position it . Another really good idea is to make guide studs that are about 2 inches long. The guide studs are made from the same diameter and thread count, with the heads cut off. The GS are screwed into the block and they help to guide the pan into place while keeping the pan steady. Put a few of the pan bolts into place then remove the guide studs, and keep them for another time.
Nothing confusing, take it one step at a time and you will get it done and have that good feeling and a nice truck to drive, after.
If you are not familiar with torque values for tightening fasteners, this might be a good time to pick p a simple torque wrench for values up to 30 foot pounds and later get another with values up to 150 foot pounds. The pan bolts should not be taken past 15- 15 foot pounds and tighten them around the pan in three passes, say, 5'#, then 10'# and finally 15'#. You may want to go back and check the final value after about ten drives. I like to check Craigslist for a good deal, but be careful. What I often use is the number of fingers torque method. On a 3/8" drive ratchet, I use one finger up to 5'# and two up to 10'#, and three fingers up to 15'#, and so on.
I would rather have tools I do not need than to need tools I do not have
Artificial intelligence is no match for real stupidity....

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

Posts: 455

Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:06 pm

Post Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:57 pm

Re: Over heat

nikkinutshop wrote:No problem if you let it sit for a year, After all, how long did it sit before you rescued it? When you take the oil pan off, please check the flange where the bolts go.. It is not uncommon to see the flange with some distortion from being over tightened the mating surface will have high and low areas from where the bolts have been over tightened. Your pan may not have this problem, but you should check. Another good piece of advice is to glue the gasket to the pan flange with part number 1050026 or the exact same product from LOCTITE IS 30517. These are a tacky product that will hold the pan gasket in place while you try to position it . Another really good idea is to make guide studs that are about 2 inches long. The guide studs are made from the same diameter and thread count, with the heads cut off. The GS are screwed into the block and they help to guide the pan into place while keeping the pan steady. Put a few of the pan bolts into place then remove the guide studs, and keep them for another time.
Nothing confusing, take it one step at a time and you will get it done and have that good feeling and a nice truck to drive, after.
If you are not familiar with torque values for tightening fasteners, this might be a good time to pick p a simple torque wrench for values up to 30 foot pounds and later get another with values up to 150 foot pounds. The pan bolts should not be taken past 15- 15 foot pounds and tighten them around the pan in three passes, say, 5'#, then 10'# and finally 15'#. You may want to go back and check the final value after about ten drives. I like to check Craigslist for a good deal, but be careful. What I often use is the number of fingers torque method. On a 3/8" drive ratchet, I use one finger up to 5'# and two up to 10'#, and three fingers up to 15'#, and so on.

it sat outside for a year driven ocassionally with a warped head, blown gasket and leaky carb, i have a 150 foot pounder i used when i redid the head
1952 L-112 Long Bed BD220 3 speed, 4x4.
1962 Dodge Dart 330, 392 Hemi, T56 6 speed manual.
1986 GMC K1500 Jimmy, 396 V8, 700R4, 208C, 4x4.
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