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The old and reliable.

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

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Location: Lyman, IA

Post Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:21 pm

Re: New member

I picture would be worth 1000 words. I'm guessing from what you are saying, is there is a shaft somehow attached to the frame on one side and the bell on the other that both the clutch and brake pedals pivot on? A picture of this would help me think of solutions. An Iron Bell could be welded or braised to hold a shaft mount of some sort. Casting a custom bell would be cost prohibitive, fabbing one out of steel would take some serious metal working equipment, then it would have to be indexed and line bored to get everything lined up properly.
If I could, I would look for a #2 bell for one of the old single countershaft Fullers, and see if it can be adapted to the trans you have and then go about making a attachment for the pedal shaft.
The trans is centered to the crankshaft by the center hole in the bellhousing half. If you can find one that has the same general bolt pattern for mounting to the trans, the center hole can be line bored or bushed depending on if it needs to be bigger or smaller.
#1 bells are going to limit you to the biggest engines, they just aren't used on the big gassers (IHC etc) they all went with #2, even my 6-71 Detroit has a #2, Only my 855 Cummins and Cat 3406 have #1.

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Post Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:03 am

Re: New member

What area of the forum would be a good place to move this thread? I find it very interesting, and in the right area, might get some more traffic?

Lloyd

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

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Location: Canada's left Coast

Post Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:10 am

Re: New member

1940 and older.
I would rather have tools I do not need than to need tools I do not have
Thinking risks being controversial and possibly being offensive

Rookie
Rookie

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Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:21 pm

Post Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:17 pm

Re: New member

Cb89, there's a pic of the pedal assy. There isn't any bracket to the frame. I did find a adaptor plate which is 1" thick. The transmission is a fuller ru-16. Mike

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

Posts: 5170

Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:28 pm

Location: Lyman, IA

Post Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:37 pm

Re: New member

Mike Stearns wrote:Cb89, there's a pic of the pedal assy. There isn't any bracket to the frame. I did find a adaptor plate which is 1" thick. The transmission is a fuller ru-16. Mike

Where is the pic?

Rookie
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Post Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:35 pm

Re: New member

Here's the pic
Attachments
image.jpg
image.jpg

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

Posts: 5170

Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:28 pm

Location: Lyman, IA

Post Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:53 pm

Re: New member

Ok, the way I see it, the brake lever just is using the clutch shaft as a pivot, and is not connected to it in a solid manor.
Theoretically, that same shaft would fit in a #2 bell as well. the shaft is not part of the bell, but part of the clutch operating mechanism. The hard part I foresee is that uses a multiple disk clutch set-up and not the more common single or double disks used in later automotive style clutches.
If you are going to replace the engine with a more modern, say RD 450, you would be changing to a more modern type automotive clutch, no? You wouldn't be reusing the multi disk clutch, and there is a lot to be said for pulling the RD and trans as a unit and fitting to you Firetruck. The modern truck clutches be they either pull or push use a shaft and replaceable fork for the throwout bearing. The fork has a shaft on either side that rides in bushings in the Bell. You just need to either adapt you present shaft, of make one that is long enough to allow for the brake arm pivot. Any small machine shop can make up the shaft to adapt your pedal set up to the RD (or whatever engine/clutch/trans) bell and trans.
I think it would be simpler to stick with whatever 4 or 5 spd trans came on the donor engine, as it doesn't look like the fire pump is in any way direct coupled to the trans.
On modern clutches, the shaft for the side without the lever attached is the same for all trucks using that trans set-up, the shaft for the side that does have the actuating arm is unique to the truck mfg and model. It is just a piece of shafting with either a spline or a woodruff key slot cut into it.
If you are changing out the engine, I don't see a reason to keep the old trans either. It will just make the whole thing harder to get working together.

Rookie
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Post Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:03 pm

Re: New member

That all makes sense. The multi disk clutch is quite expensive to rebuild, about 2k. I was hoping to go to a newer style clutch. I just would have to reuse the trans yoke. The trans is connected to the fire pump with a short drive shaft. I'm also still trying to locate a Rd at this time. Do you have any leads on one? Thanks Mike

Ps :as far as moving moving this to another forum is fine with me, but being new to this forum, I don't know how. Mike

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

Posts: 5170

Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:28 pm

Location: Lyman, IA

Post Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:45 pm

Re: New member

I had a RD 406 10 years ago but I sold it. The 501 has the bore machined into the block directly, The 450 and smaller are all dry lined, which makes a rebuild easy.
As I said, I would look to buy an engine and trans together then adapt the driveline to fit. easy to do, many yokes and U joints to choose from.
Building a multi disk clutch would be so expensive. I stick with single or duel disk clutches.

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Post Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:34 pm

Re: New member

If you do hear of one, please let me know. Thanks mike
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