noisy transmission


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Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

Posts: 682

Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:38 pm

Post Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:19 am

Re: noisy transmission

Did you do anything inside the transmission ? I took 2 transmissions and what I thought were the best parts of the both and made 1 that I put in my truck . 5speed overdrive . and the trans was pretty noisy , So I put the parts back as they were and it was the solution . seems as the parts wear into each other .

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

Posts: 8309

Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:45 pm

Location: Canada's left Coast

Post Sun Jun 09, 2019 3:55 pm

Re: noisy transmission

One of the member of this forum and a person who should know better, took the transmission out of his Binder. He washed it and all of the related parts with gasoline. OK, you might say, there are risks with this risky treatment, and I agree. I did not think washing parts in the shop that was attached to the home was a good idea.
The brother of my father-in-law was burned to death when his gasoline wash-up burst into flames. He set himself ablaze and ran off into the night in minus 40F winter weather. His lungs froze from the cold air and he suffered terrible burns. The family found him frozen in the morning.
I would rather have tools I do not need than to need tools I do not have
“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
Mark Twain

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

Posts: 340

Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2015 8:16 am

Post Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:10 am

Re: noisy transmission

Didn’t do anything to the inside of the transmission. Took the cover off , looked at the gears and observed wearing of one side of the gear edges on what I think is second gear. It looked like too many attempts to shift quickly from first. When I drive it I’m in no hurry, I ensure the clutch pedal is fully depressed and let the rpms settle. This makes for a smooth shift to second. I will admit that I have erred a couple times earlier on thinking that it would shift a little faster but quickly learned it didn’t like it.

The transmission was wet all over so I replaced the felt washer around the shift cable to see if that would help and replaced the cover gasket. I had the e brake rebuilt and didn’t want to have it awash with gear oil. The manual is somewhat vague that 140 gear oil is OK in the hot weather. Definitely OK for differential but just states that the transmission requires 3 pints so I filled it with 140 in the hopes that the thicker lube may slow the leaking.
It still gets wet to the point of dripping after a half hour on the road. I can’t really tell were the oil is coming from. There is some weeping from the speedometer thumb collar, some very slight from the drain plug and it appears from the rear bearing retainer gasket (if in fact there is even a gasket).

Gonna call transmission/rear end shop today to see if they can have a look-see.

Rusty Driver
Rusty Driver

Posts: 121

Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:58 pm

Post Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:48 pm

Re: noisy transmission

been following this post. Am not even close to driving my KB yet but am wanting to see if gaskets and seals are available for the 4-speed trannys. Mine is leaking oil just setting on the floor.
On the bench it seems to shift into all the gears alright. I have pulled the stick out of and looking thru that hole it needs some cleaned inside that if I do that with gasoline it will be outside.
Just seeing if seals and gaskets were even available.
Thanks for any input.
.

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

Posts: 340

Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2015 8:16 am

Post Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:35 pm

Re: noisy transmission

I blundered during my assembly.

Just returned from the diagnostic meeting with a bearing guy with many years experience. As CB89 indicated it is definitely the rear end. After a brief ride we raised the rear and idled in third gear. Standing beside the truck it was really obvious. So much so that I don’t know how I ever assumed it could be the transmission. I did drive it home, about 15 miles praying it would hold together.The consensus is bad pinion bearings. Wow, the slop was plenty and noisy.

This both good and bad news. Glad it’s not the transmission as parts are almost non existent ( except for bearings wich are readily available ). The good part is that the rear is a Ford 8.8 and parts are easily obtained.

Would I leave it to an expert next time? Probably not but this one time I am definitely having the bearing guy do the repair.Thanks all for your input.

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

Posts: 4595

Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:28 pm

Location: Lyman, IA

Post Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:16 pm

Re: noisy transmission

So your saying the pinion was loose? that should change noise power on, coast, and power off.
Improper setting of the pinion depth will be pretty much noisy all the time.
The driveshaft acts like a big mechanics stethoscope, bringing the noise from the back right up to the trans.
I am still concerned that the depth setting for the gearset in question hasn't been addressed. Even with the pinion pre-load set properly, if the correct setting for quietest hasn't been done, it will be a disappointment.
Also, if you have access to a lathe and some steel bushing stock, you can eliminate the "crush collar" and make a ridged bearing spacer. It will take several tries to get the dimension correct, or you can make one too small and add shims until the preload is correct, then measure the spacer plus all shims used and make a solid spacer of that size. That is how big trucks pinion bearings are done, but with them the pinion bearing cage assembly bolts on, so you can take the whole assembly and put it in a press with assorted spacers until you find the correct one.
With a solid spacer, bearing preload is NOT dependent on crushing the spacer, and it can not be over crushed. install the solid spacer and torque the nut to the spec's and it will be correct, every time.
Pinion pre-load is extremely important to long bearing life, without it the pinion will hammer back and forth and will destroy the bearings in short order, BUT too much preload will also destroy the bearings.
I have found that even some "gear shops" that should know better, don't put enough pre-load on the bearings, I have found them set to zero pre-load (no drag or play) but some drag is needed (most often between 28-32 oz of force to rotate with new bearings) so as the bearings wear, they will become looser, and by the time the hard surface has worn away, there will be no more pre-load. Too little pre load and bearings will become loose before they have worn for there expected lifetime. Too much and fiction and heat will rapidly destroy the bearings and could cause the races to spin on their respected parts.
Idle ramblings from your resident proctologist.

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

Posts: 340

Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2015 8:16 am

Post Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:58 am

Re: noisy transmission

Thank you for your ramblings. Your residency is much appreciated. No;I do not have access to a lathe but the old timer ( I say that In jest as he probably still in his 60s ) does. I will order the pinion bearings and seal and make a time for him to do it. He may allow me to help or at least observe. Either way I’m leaving it to his expertise. There’s nothing like experience and I’m not young enough to gain too much more but I will pay attention .

BK

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

Posts: 340

Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2015 8:16 am

Post Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:46 am

Re: noisy transmission

Rear end is back in. New inner and outer pinion bearings. Turns out that the outer bearing and race were miss-matched. Seems good now.

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

Posts: 340

Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2015 8:16 am

Post Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:07 am

Re: noisy transmission

Just to add a little more to this post; I’ve put about 100 miles on the truck since the pinion repair. The drive train seams as quiet as it will get and has no vibration up to 55mph. The more noticeable noises now are the creaking and groaning of the seat/cab and valve clatter that comes and goes.

Prior to installing the Explorer rear end ,the first time ,I had the spring the perches moved and welded to the KB1 width. I notched out the edges to allow for the U bolts. It all fit together rather well. BUT now that I had this pinion issue I started researching pinion angles. There is a lot of information available, some confusing, some pretty straight forward . Anyway, I came to the conclusion that the angle was not correct. To change it , rather than remove and re-weld the perches ,I used wedges to improve the angle.

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

Posts: 4595

Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:28 pm

Location: Lyman, IA

Post Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:41 pm

Re: noisy transmission

Pinion angle on a single rear axle is easy. The two shaft (trans output and pinion) need to be parallel to each other. so if the trans is angled down at 3 deg, the pinion must be angled up at the same 3 deg. This will make the u joint angles equal.
If you extend the center line of both shafts, they will never meet but remain as separate lines that will always have the same distance between the extended lines.
Close mounted tandem drives with "broken back" type driveshafts are more difficult to set up.
Best results and longest life will be achieved when the U joint angles are less than 3 deg, high angles can be used but wear and vibration will be a problem.
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