The D30 is freed up, 50 years later


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Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

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Post Wed Nov 05, 2014 12:40 pm

Re: The D30 is freed up, 50 years later

That's right , what was I thinking I have never taken apart one of those ,would like to . I've never seen the inside of a flathead ' do you have any pictures ?

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

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Post Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:07 pm

Re: The D30 is freed up, 50 years later

The top of this flathead engine looks like a Briggs and Stratton times six. Noting more and nothing less. Well, there are a few passages for coolant.
I would rather have tools I do not need than to need tools I do not have
Artificial intelligence is no match for real stupidity....

Rusty Driver
Rusty Driver

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Post Fri Nov 07, 2014 12:24 pm

Re: The D30 is freed up, 50 years later

I did some research and discovered the 213 and 232 engines actually were originally built by willys overland. I'm wondering if a head gasket for a willys overland would work since they appear to be available?

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

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Post Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:08 pm

Re: The D30 is freed up, 50 years later

Your chances of finding a WILLYS engine head gasket may be many times more difficult. I am thinking that these old plodders would respond very well to forced induction. Flathead engine designs, with a few exceptions, have trouble breathing. If and when the intake valve opens and the cylinder is met with boosted pressure added to atmospheric pressure, MAGIHC happens.

http://youtu.be/yPswZ8ibCcc
I would rather have tools I do not need than to need tools I do not have
Artificial intelligence is no match for real stupidity....

Rusty Driver
Rusty Driver

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Post Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:13 am

Re: The D30 is freed up, 50 years later

I did some cleanup before winter arrives tomorrow. I scraped the deck, tops of the valves, and piston tops. Then, I wire wheeled the valve seat of the exhaust valve that snapped off. I followed up with the shop vac and blew it clean with compressed air. I wiped the deck and cylinder walls with a good coat of ATF. I also poured a 1/4" of ATF on top of each piston. Why ATF? It's the anti-corrosion additive package that's why. I covered it with a double layer of plastic before I closed the bonnet. The head and old victor gasket moved into the shop, out of the elements.

I think it would run if I had an old exhaust valve... but the valves and seats are real pitted and should be replaced. I'm not sure of this engines future, its very compact. If I can scrape up parts for it I might re-purpose it as a small tractor engine etc. I also thought about using similar sized valves from another engine.

The lack of aftermarket parts for these engines (even discontinued) is the big drawback of owning an IH product.
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Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

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Post Mon Nov 10, 2014 8:57 am

Re: The D30 is freed up, 50 years later

Don't know if they still do, but Egge machine in CA made new valves out of stainless steel for my 1917 model F. You might give them a try. MM

Golden Jubilee
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Post Mon Nov 10, 2014 9:11 am

Re: The D30 is freed up, 50 years later

Diesel D30 wrote:The lack of aftermarket parts for these engines (even discontinued) is the big drawback of owning an IH product.

I haven't found parts too unobtainable. I guess it is all relative, I used to work on Brit buses, and if any parts were still available, they were a continent away. Most things can be had if you go looking at buyers guides. Ring can be had by size and shape, even if the application is not listed in the catalog, valves the same way. There are gasket makers for gaskets (Olsen, and others).
A little machining, and often something else can be made to work.

Rusty Driver
Rusty Driver

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Post Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:39 pm

Re: The D30 is freed up, 50 years later

I found alot of information about these engines surfing the internet. The 213 engine is a Willys Overland engine originally used in the model 99 car in the 30's, not many were sold. These were sold to IH and used in C series trucks. Willys Overland must have sold the rights and tooling for the engines to IH about the time the triple diamond logo appears on the side of the block (I'm guessing when the D series was introduced). The old HD232 became the GRD engines in 41 on.

These engines were state of the art at the time they were built, they have pressurized oiling and an oil filter, most engines were splash oil in pickups. They also have forged steel crankshafts. The only real bad is the crank is only supported by 4 main bearings (instead of 7 like a modern inline 6 has)... but its only an 80 HP engine. Apparently, the blocks have a tendency to crack from rear to front. I'm a little worried about this one since the casting looks iffy right above the starter, might be a casting flaw or worse. There was no water in the jacket when I opened the drain.

There is a real good write up on the GRD engines over on binderplanet, if any one is interested. There is a list of vendors who will repair your old harmonic balancers in that article, amongst other things.

As far as valves go I need an 80171 HC exhaust valve, the stem is 3/8" and it is about 5.6" long...interestingly a big block Chevrolet valve has a 3/8" stem and is about 5.20" long, it might make life a little easier to use custom long length BBC valves and reduce the head size in the lathe or just put bigger seats in the block and gain a little flow.

The HD232 engine is a tiny engine for a 1 1/2 ton truck by modern standards it's the equivalent of 6, 13HP B&S engines coupled together. It would be great in a real little tractor to tug stuff around the yard though, I'll bet they run smooth and are good low RPM torque. If I can patch this one for another run, for not too much money, I will and re-purpose it.

Looks like the D30 is going to get a nose job and a 5.9 Cummins 6BTT with an Eaton Fuller Roadranger RTO-613 "baby 13 speed". I will need to stretch the nose approximately 5" at the cowl end of the hood so the 5.9 will slide in the engine bay and the massive SAE 2 flywheel housing can stay out of the cab. The body might need a slight lift too for extra transmission clearance. Otherwise there will be no room for pedals (or a floor for that matter) and the road rangers shifter would be at the front of the seat bolster (blocking lots of gears. I want the finished product to be a D series truck with the long hood of a KB12. This D30 is going to be able to run 80 MPH down the interstate with a 27 ft gooseneck in tow, with 3 times the class any modern 1 1/2 ton has.

Golden Jubilee
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Post Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:29 am

Re: The D30 is freed up, 50 years later

Diesel D30 wrote:.

These engines were state of the art at the time they were built, they have pressurized oiling and an oil filter, most engines were splash oil in pickups. .

Well, I guess it depends on your point of view. Compared to Chevy, ya but the Chevy was OHV Chevy had pressure mains, dipper rods, I think Dodge used pressure lube. All IHC designed engine of that era were OHV and either wet or dry liner and had replaceable bearing on full pressure lube. The early HD and later to become the GRD were purchased "out of house" because they had no small engine for a pick-up and didn't want to go through the trouble of designing on until they saw how well a "Light line" would sell, don't forget this was the middle of the depression!
In its earliest form the Fbx engine was used in tractors and the Fax was used in the early 30's Both were OHV and at least the FAx was wet liner, I think the earliest FBx's were still dry liner, but have very little info in the FB series. Both of these were around when they 1st started using the HD. Both these engine were used in some form until the demise of the gasoline engines in truck, the 308 was around until the late 60's and the 450 and 501 were around until 70 or so when smog regs would have required a complete re design, and gas trucks were not in demand, diesel was king.
The 5.9 bock in Dodges had a tendancy to crack just above the oil pan into the coolant jacket, but I guess they fixed that as they sure sell a lot of them.

Rusty Driver
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Post Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:32 pm

Re: The D30 is freed up, 50 years later

cornbinder89 wrote: The 5.9 bock in Dodges had a tendancy to crack just above the oil pan into the coolant jacket, but I guess they fixed that as they sure sell a lot of them.


The cracking issue is with certain #53 storm blocks in 98 and 99 but, they have appeared in trucks into the 01 or so range. It mainly affects 24V engines but there were a few 98 12V engines that used the same block. They had issues with the casting being too thin at the step in the passengers side of the block. The 55, 56, and 58 storm blocks were increasingly beefed in that area. I have found that the pre 98 encore blocks used on 12V engines were pretty much trouble free. I don't know if its core shift or what but, I just scrapped one with and 18" long crack in that area. It ran fine but leaked water bad under load. I've sled pulled a 250,000 mile 92 12V on the stock bottom end for years, launching at 5300 RPM and 71 PSI boost from a large frame turbo off a semi. Yeah, they're stupid tough engines.
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