WHAT DID YOU DO IN YOUR SHOP TODAY


Just keep it clean please....

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

Posts: 5170

Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:28 pm

Location: Lyman, IA

Post Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:38 am

Re: WHAT DID YOU DO IN YOUR SHOP TODAY

Yeah, it was a Bridgeport that he couldn't find a single phase motor to fit, it was neigh on 30 years ago I wired in a static phase convertor for him.
I have an antique 62.5 KVA generator that is 3 phase, I had (have) plans to wire the shop 3 phase as well as single, only running the generator when I need to run something on three phase. The generator is big enough to run a small mfg plant!

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

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Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2016 4:52 pm

Post Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:03 pm

Re: WHAT DID YOU DO IN YOUR SHOP TODAY

CB, my shop was originally three phase power. Unfortunately, our house was, too! PG&E wanted a LOT of extra money for three phase, so we were able to disconnect one of the leads from the transformer and go to single phase and cheaper power.
NOW, I want three phase back, but not all my motors are three phase. I can get the same transformer rewired, but is that the best route?
My issues are:
1) Shop powers our newer domestic water well and newer house A/C. (Whew!)
2) Three phase power is substantially more expensive. Winter months our shop power bill is only about $50. I'd hate to lose that.
3) I have a mix of single phase and three phase devices in my shop. The three phase stuff has not been put into use, yet.
4) I'm building a "old-timey" line shaft machine shop. I'm doing pretty well. Most machines and line shaft stuff is on its way here. The "old-timey" line shaft machine shops around here were powered by a big high-mounted electric motor. Three phase, I assume.
5) I purchased a used ex-school over-built US-built air compressor and huge (for a compressor) electric motor that's three phase. I'd sure like to put that into service ASAP.
Any advice you could give me would be great. The old machine shop is just a hobby thing, but I'd like to use it when I need it.
6) My idea on the "old-timey" line shaft stuff was to maybe mock-up the belts and shafts but still use the electric motors they each were converted to long ago.
Thanks, Don

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

Posts: 2028

Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2016 4:52 pm

Post Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:18 pm

Re: WHAT DID YOU DO IN YOUR SHOP TODAY

BTW, California has "air compressor police" that come to your business (or school, or...?) and RUIN your day. It's $$$ for the inspection and they'll (he'll) shut you down if your air system is deemed dangerous.
I know of no older air compressor that has passed inspection. There's always a spot near the tank drain where the metal has thinned that puts that compressor "out of action". He literally stamps a skull and crossbones on it. If you're lucky that day, reducing your line pressure to 125 psi might be OK. It just depends.
We HATE this guy when he comes...he actually makes you remove all the inspection plugs and leave them out if the tank fails inspection. And then threatens a $$$$ fine if you put that machine back into service.

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

Posts: 5170

Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:28 pm

Location: Lyman, IA

Post Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:22 pm

Re: WHAT DID YOU DO IN YOUR SHOP TODAY

You have a number of options, If you only have one thing that you are really going to "use" then I would stick with single phase. You can make a phase convertor out of a 3 phase motor that you "idle" by running it on single phase no load, and connecting the three phase load in parallel with it. You will need to add a run capacitor across two of the leads to get the motor to start, You can also buy a static convertor or the aforementioned FVD.
It seams silly to pay year around for 3 phase only to run a compressor. The thing is used three phase equipment is dirt cheap, because shop are unlikely to want to mess around with used stuff, and most hobby shops don't have 3 phase.
If you run a three phase motor on single, you loose a bit of hp, so if the motor in question is heavly loaded you might want to consider the FVD method sized to match the full load current of the motor in question.
I have 125 amps of single phase available in my barn, so haven't the need of 3 phase yet, but I bought a 1940 army air core 62.5 KVA generator for $600 so I also can have 125 amps of 220 three phase if I need it, whether I can afford to feed the generator is another question? It burns 5 gal/hr of gasoline, and I would convert to LP as I wouldn''t want to store that much gasoline on the property.
I did use to it to power a welder once, it never even noticed that load!

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

Posts: 5170

Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:28 pm

Location: Lyman, IA

Post Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:26 pm

Re: WHAT DID YOU DO IN YOUR SHOP TODAY

Surplus center has an 80 gal vertical tank available. I'm sure those inspection are a pain, those guys don't have jobs to pass tanks, they have them solely to condemn tanks, so I'm sure they feel a need to justify their job.
Where I live nobody inspects anything, and if you kill yourself its on your head (pun intended).

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

Posts: 2028

Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2016 4:52 pm

Post Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:01 pm

Re: WHAT DID YOU DO IN YOUR SHOP TODAY

Great advice, thanks!
I'll stay single phase.
What happens if I run three phase motors on single phase? I've heard they overheat?
On my overbuilt three phase school air compressor, I could run the FVD and be OK?
I've never heard of the "run parallel" solution. That's cool!

The thing with the "air compressor police" is that in every case everyone goes out and buys the cheapie "Home Depot special" which is very weak to begin with. The compressor pump mount cracks at the tank in short order. Junk.

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

Posts: 5170

Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:28 pm

Location: Lyman, IA

Post Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:25 pm

Re: WHAT DID YOU DO IN YOUR SHOP TODAY

If you run a 3 phase on single, you need to de-rate the motor to 2/3 rds or you can over heat it.
The idea of the Idleing motor (rotary phase convertor) is that the windings in the motor that is just idling act like a generator and generate the missing phases. This means the loaded motor is provided with true 3 phase and can be loaded to its rated load.
I would google it or go over to Smokstak.com and ask on the electrical forum, there are some real sharp people on that site, and some not so bright (like me) but no question is deemed "too basic" for them to answer. If I was only going to work one piece of equipment, then I would stick with single phase, if I had a whole shop worth of equipment, then it would be worth having PG&E supply the current. Remember, you are going to need more current to do the same work on single phase then you will on 3 phase.

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

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Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:45 pm

Location: Canada's left Coast

Post Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:51 pm

Re: WHAT DID YOU DO IN YOUR SHOP TODAY

This is the Craigslist ad I mentioned. I called the seller and we may get together this week. I am trying to adjust the shop, in my mind, for space.

https://vancouver.craigslist.ca/nvn/tls ... 82254.html
I would rather have tools I do not need than to need tools I do not have
Thinking risks being controversial and possibly being offensive

Site Admin
Site Admin

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Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:10 am

Location: Nampa, Idaho

Post Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:39 pm

Re: WHAT DID YOU DO IN YOUR SHOP TODAY

Nikki, that looks like a really good machine. That is not a bad price. I think, knowing you, if you want it, you will get a good price. Then the one you have can bless someone's shop.
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Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

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Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:06 pm

Location: Saskatchewan

Post Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:17 am

Re: WHAT DID YOU DO IN YOUR SHOP TODAY

What I did in my shop today, since it warmed up near the freezing mark, was to get the oil pan removed off the 53 Merc flathead. It looked not bad at all inside. A few spider webs but oily enough that there was no major rust. More soaking with penetrating oil required on those cylinders before it turns over I think.
https://youtu.be/ujSMwU0_Ack
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