OUR 40 FORD


Just keep it clean please....

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

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Post Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:37 pm

Re: OUR 40 FORD

Old guys like mild weather also. I am enjoying the challenges. I might be a little anxious about, "What is that noise?" if and when the engine starts.
I have two of those vintage GRACO pressurized oilers. I have gear oil in one and ATF in the other. I am going to plumb the GRACO with ATF into the engine lube system. One shot of 500 milliliters at 35 psi will be OK. I hope this will be as controversial as electric fuel pumps, 12 volts and positive grounds. Pictures later.
The return piston is spring propelled. Lifting the handle compresses the internal spring. 35 psi is about the maximum
Attachments
GRACO PRIME PUMP..jpg
GRACO PRIME PUMP 2.jpg
I would rather have tools I do not need than to need tools I do not have
Thinking risks being controversial and possibly being offensive

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

Posts: 8938

Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:45 pm

Location: Canada's left Coast

Post Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:32 am

Re: OUR 40 FORD

I noticed that this is the 20,000 view of this subject. Thanks for looking and contributing.

EDIT and ADD. (because I don't want this to go to the top of the posts)

September, 29, 2017
I have been busy in the shop with a few other things that needed done. In a moment of what-the-heck, on my way out for coffee with a friend, I decided to give the Ford a quick start-up try, yesterday, on the 28th. The engine turned over about two times and fired up for about 4 seconds. I think the engine stopped when, out of total surprise, I released the throttle. The fuel system has always held pressure for 36 hours. The power-on pressure has been 47.5 psi then quickly dropped to 20-25psi when the key was turned off. Yesterday the power-on was 47.5 psi and dropped to 42psi and stayed there when the key is off. That suggests to me, we have had air in the injection circuit.
I want my son to have the first start because it means more to him than it does to me. So, without telling him, I want to make sure there is a reliable start and run before I call for his assistance.
I would rather have tools I do not need than to need tools I do not have
Thinking risks being controversial and possibly being offensive
User avatar

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

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Post Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:46 am

Re: OUR 40 FORD

Nikki

Hmmm we need a video of all tries as we all know it doesn't normally go first time. We have all been on the journey you cant leave us hangin like this.

Way to go Mate
http://www.vihtr.com
Veteran International Harvester Truck Registry
https://www.facebook.com/groups/316122235181405/
International Harvester Trucks Pre 1940

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

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Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:45 pm

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Post Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:12 am

Re: OUR 40 FORD

The only video anyone will see from me is the start and run followed by the first test drive around the 'hood. Now that our weather has changed to fall monsoons I'm not rushing. The rain was so heavy and visibility dropped to nearly zero, when my wife and I were crossing the Port Mann bridge today. Suddenly there was no traffic behind us. The traffic news reported 30 car crash.
We had been out looking at a house with a detached garage. The house was nice. The garage is 3000 sf on the main with 4 doors. There are stairs and an elevator to the finished loft with all amenities. :t3909:
I would rather have tools I do not need than to need tools I do not have
Thinking risks being controversial and possibly being offensive

Rusty Driver
Rusty Driver

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Location: Below the pinky finger of the Mitten

Post Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:35 am

Re: OUR 40 FORD

nikkinutshop wrote: The garage is 3000 sf on the main with 4 doors. There are stairs and an elevator to the finished loft with all amenities.


Now THAT, is a garage! Most of us might call that Heaven.

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

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Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:45 pm

Location: Canada's left Coast

Post Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:53 pm

Re: OUR 40 FORD

So, I have been thinking and reading the details of what makes a TEC system go bump in the night. I want a reliable and repeatable action from the crankshaft sensor. The detailed installation instructions and drawing suggest that a tone wheel of the pictured design is the best option. So, my task for tomorrow is to make a custom fit tone ring as per the picture. I have left enough room inside the original "my design" cap/cover to accommodate a stacked, second tone wheel.
To reduce magnetic interference I will use 3 stainless machine screws through 3 Delrin spacers from below and drill and tap the top tone ring. The stainless machine screws will be milled to flush with the top surface. Can you say Red Loctite?
I took a few daze off to work on the design. I made the modified Mallory distributor design so it is easy to remove and time because of a sliding collar that secures the distributor to the OEM C69A Flathead V8 front cam cover/distributor drive.
Yah, Yah, it is all too complicated for an old fart like me, but........................................ it is going to work. I am out of pocket just over $4000cdn for this exotic and programmable electronic engine management system. I do not see myself retreating and calling for help, just yet.
Attachments
TEC parts cam timing wheel.jpg
crank timing
TEC3r parts.jpg
custom made parts
MALLORY DUAL POINT WITH TRS AND SRS.jpg
modified Mallory DP with sensors.
MALLORY DP 2.jpg
Modified Mallory DP
I would rather have tools I do not need than to need tools I do not have
Thinking risks being controversial and possibly being offensive

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

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Post Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:28 pm

Re: OUR 40 FORD

Back in the day just before computerized fuel injection went from distributors to directly mounted cam and crank sensors often ALL the rotational sensors were inside the distributor. The most famous of these I think is the Honda Civic/Accord distributor which has three sensors stacked one on top of each other: crank, cam and CID (cylinder ID)!
Straight six 4.2l Jeeps used a distributor mounted sensor to run the fuel injectors and a hard to replace crank sensor at rear of the engine for everything else. Rotating the distributor does not change timing on these models.
All common modern EFI foreign or domestic is originally based on Robert Bosch's L-Jetronic and K-Jetronic fuel injection systems. LH and KE are variants.
Bosch took American fuel injection of the 1950s and 1960s and improved it immeasurably!
Bosch L-Jetronic fuel injection used a distributor mounted magnetic pickup "crank" sensor. Since early Bosch isn't sequential fuel injection it only needs an engine speed input, no cam or cylinder ID. L and LH-Jetronic are "Mass Air Flow" fuel injection systems. The earliest L-Jetronic fuel injection used a VAF (vane air flow) system. This "Mass Air Flow" input comes from a spring-loaded door that the incoming air pushes against. A potentiometer measures the amount of push. The later variant of L-Jetronic (LH) uses the more familiar hot-wire MAF to give air flow readings. Sizes of MAFs have shrunk from the size of a small toaster to about the size of a large postage stamp. :)
Bosch K-Jetronic fuel injection (like used on old VWs, Mercedes, Volvo) is a more "mechanical" system. However, it is still considered EFI.
It works by having a "fuel distributor" of braided steel lines connected to "injectors" that are really just spring-loaded pintles, having no electronics. K and KE fuel injection are also called "continuous" fuel injection because there is no rhythmic on-off of an electronically controlled pintle-style "solenoid" injector. K and KE sprays continously like a garden hose to each cylinder and make a funny little squealing noise when they do. This is considered a high-pressure fuel system, BTW. Nothing compared to modern DFI, though.
K and KE meter fuel by way of a mechanical plate in the air induction system that is displaced by incoming air and is directly connected to the "fuel distributor".
I have always wanted to put one of these Bosch K/KE fuel injection systems on my IHC 345 V-8!
Mercedes-Benz had V-8 powered K and KE.
Bosch KE is just the "feedback" version of the K. It uses an oxygen sensor connected to computer which controls fuel pressure, only.
Sequential and direct fuel injection for gas engines came later, of course.
Bosch L and LH systems calculate how much fuel to inject, divide that amount by half, and then inject fuel all at the same time EVERY revolution.
Nikki, your TEC system is using some or all of this technology, including some Distributorless Ignition technology.
Hall-effect digital "on-off" rotational sensors were not used in any early Bosch L or K systems that I can recall.
I know I am long-winded but very few people understand the chronology and development of EFI. It didn't just show up one day. It helps to understand how it evolved and how it works.
I haven't discussed "speed density" EFI. It's generally a cheaper version of "MAF"-style. It uses engine speed and intake manifold vacuum (Manifold Absolute Pressure) to determine fuel metering.
Good luck, Nikki!

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

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Post Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:24 am

Re: OUR 40 FORD

I am following the instructions from the manufacturer. There is lots of information for an old foggy brain to understand. If this does not work, it will be something I missed.
I have an extra Cummins 4bta that just might fit. A Diesel powered 77 year old Ford car has got to have a big cool factor.
I would rather have tools I do not need than to need tools I do not have
Thinking risks being controversial and possibly being offensive

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

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Location: Lyman, IA

Post Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:22 am

Re: OUR 40 FORD

MM, great description of the Bosch systems. Never seen it written up so clearly. Ever have one of the old other German system? It starts with a K but I will not attempt to spell it. It worked like a inline diesel injection pump, but was low pressure and fed nozzles in the intake ports. It didn't stay around long. Peugeot used it, and a few others.

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

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Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2016 4:52 pm

Post Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:14 am

Re: OUR 40 FORD

That's K and KE, CB.
It's as close to diesel injection on a gas engine that I've ever seen. It looks mechanical but it's taught in school as EFI.
There IS another word for it...had to google it.
The THREE names:
1) Bosch K or KE (feedback)-Jetronic
2) Continuous fuel injection
3) CIS :) or CIS-E (again, the feedback version).

Googling reminded me of the high-end, slightly later version of Bosch fuel-injection:
Motronic.
I've seen this mainly on Porsche and maybe BMW.
I have probably worked on only one or two Peugots in my life. What the French and Italians did for fuel injection during these years is not in my experience that I recall. I have owned Fiats, though.
Everything is going GDI, now. EVERYONE.
Last edited by Monsonmotors on Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:22 am, edited 2 times in total.
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