OUR 40 FORD


Just keep it clean please....

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Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

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Location: Central Florida

Post Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:22 am

Re: OUR 40 FORD

Best of luck! I hope it all goes well and we can see pix of you motoring around in your "new" Ford.
L110 owner since 1974, finally rebuilt 2014.

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

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Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2016 4:52 pm

Post Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:49 am

Re: OUR 40 FORD

Yes, good luck, Nikki!

My experience with the DIS coil pack/ waste spark system is that it is counterintuitive and the hardest of all ignition systems I work on to diagnose. I certainly hope you don't have to diagnose ANYTHING, of course!
Not until you are in the trenches with this stuff can you begin to appreciate its inherent UN-diagnosability. Each coil fires TWO plugs. One paired-coil cylinder is on exhaust stroke and the other paired-coil cylinder is on compression. You divide the firing order in half and put the front half over the last half. The corresponding cylinders are the "companion cylinders".
The spark will do ANYTHING to avoid firing the cylinder on compression. That's any ignition's downfall but in the case of DIS it is DIABOLICAL.
GM DIS systems often put a $400 list ignition module under the coilpacks. That ignition module goes out without warning and often just kills one cylinder--hence the "counterintuitive" part of this discussion.
Anything I can do to help please let me know.

https://ed.ted.com/on/6So6zgEd

This is simplistic stuff until you get flustered...I should know. I posted this link to an overall view of DIS.
It is non-specific and will be incorrect in a few respects.
I have spent more time diagnosing malfunctioning DIS systems than all other ignition systems combined. It is a taskmaster!

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

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Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:28 pm

Location: Lyman, IA

Post Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:26 am

Re: OUR 40 FORD

Many Motorcycles have used it for years, my '76 Goldwing has a similar system.
I worked in a powerhouse that had V12 Cats and V16 Wauk's that ran on natural gas, Boy oh boy, you didn't want a plug not to fire on those! IIRC they used two plug and two coils per cyl so if one didn't fire the other hopefully would, They were paired with another cyl 360 deg in the fireing order, so one coil fired two plugs in "opposing" cyl . The idea was a failure in one coil system would not lead to a failure (but reduced power output) of a cyl to fire. The two plugs started the burn at opposite sides of the combustion chamber, for better and more complete combustion. These engines ran 24/7 and were only shut down for maintance. A plug change on the Wauk was an all day affair, and done on a time schedule. I was there in the early 80's so my memory may be off a bit, but that is how I remember it.
With electronic controls, it SHOULD be able to kill one coil at a time to look for problems, but IF the mfg provided this test in the scan tool firmwear, is the question? Without that an old fashion scope would be needed to look at the output to each plug and determine if it is fireing or not (the pattern for a fireing plug looks different then one that is shorted or otherwise not fireing)

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

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Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2016 4:52 pm

Post Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:45 am

Re: OUR 40 FORD

The positive plug/ negative plug / companion cylinder concept is lost on most people. We see cars with all the right plugs on the right coil terminals and all the left plugs on the left coil teminals.

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

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Post Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:01 pm

Re: OUR 40 FORD

CB, the breadth of your experience boggles!

We were taught to diagnose DIS with short sections of vacuum hoses between every plug wire and the coilpack itself.
Using an incandescent test light, ground it and put the pointy tip on the short section of hose while it runs.
You may get zapped!
But you WILL kill a good cylinder for test purposes.
My antique Snap-On counsellor II scope has TROUBLE with DIS. It always did. Gotta be careful on hook up and looking at patterns.

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

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Location: Lyman, IA

Post Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:58 pm

Re: OUR 40 FORD

It was an interesting place to work. Believe it or not, it was a Hotel by O'Hare airport in Chicago, and was "off grid"! No connection to the public power grid, generated all their own power and used the waste heat to heat an cool the hotel! Originally the gas company ran the powerhouse and all engines ran 24-7 regardless of load, then the hotel thought they could do better and hired an old navy "engineer" to run it. He had the right idea, and shut down engines to try an keep 75% load on the ones that were running, but he lacked experience in power generation and more than once the hotel went black, necessitating evacuation of the hotel, no power, no fire pumps! Hotel got sold and my job went away with the sale. I think it is still off grid, but haven't been back in years to find out.

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

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Location: Canada's left Coast

Post Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:40 pm

Re: OUR 40 FORD

I would rather have tools I do not need than to need tools I do not have
Artificial intelligence is no match for real stupidity....

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

Posts: 5187

Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:28 pm

Location: Lyman, IA

Post Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:47 pm

Re: OUR 40 FORD

Not the hotel I worked at but same idea. It was a Sheraton hotel when I worked there, but was a Quality Inn last I knew. Could be something else by now.

Golden Jubilee
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Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:45 pm

Location: Canada's left Coast

Post Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:22 pm

Re: OUR 40 FORD

The OPTIMA battery in the Ford drops from 12.6 volts to 7.8 in a few seconds after the start button is pushed. The engine turns to slow and there may not be enough volts for the ECU to work. I will return The Ford OPTIMA has been on the battery for testing and warranty or no warranty, I will come home tomorrow morning with a new battery. This OPTIMA has been on Battery Tender every minute since I bought the two t the same time.
M Motors, do you have any professional thoughts on the OPTIMA batteries? This is like a marriage, speak now or forever hold your peace. LOL. :t3909:
The modern Power-Master starter unit sounds like a Chrysler. I was subconsciously expecting that Old Ford starter clashing sound..
The ECU accepted the new program in about 15 minutes, then displayed, You May now start the engine. Sorry, there Sparky, the battery is asleep.
It is my wife's b,day tomorrow, so we are going out this evening. She will busy with friends tomorrow.
I had a good day, anyway.
Attachments
HAMMER HEAD DUMB ASS.jpg
EFI SUPERCHARGED.jpg
ECU RETURNED.jpg
Last edited by nikkinutshop on Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I would rather have tools I do not need than to need tools I do not have
Artificial intelligence is no match for real stupidity....

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

Posts: 5187

Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:28 pm

Location: Lyman, IA

Post Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:39 pm

Re: OUR 40 FORD

I have never been a fan of Optima, but I know I am in minority. For that matter, I am not fan of electric start. Maxwell does crank well but you need another Battery to use it.
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