The myth of the 100 mpg carb


Just keep it clean please....

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Rusty Driver
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Post Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:45 pm

Re: The myth of the 100 mpg carb

I don't have a lot of actual experience with water injection.

As CB stated, it generally is used to reduce/eliminate detonation. It does add oxygen to the mix; so theoretically, should help power and mileage.

Had a friend that installed one. The water reservoir was sufficiently small, it probably was out of water as much as having water. Couldn't tell any different with/without; but I had modified the carburetor specifically for the tune of his engine.

Oldsmobile had an alcohol/water injection system on the Jetfire (turbo) to eliminate detonation. It was so successful ;) that Ford used a boost sensor and distributor retard on the turbo Mustangs.

Would guess water injection would be more successful on some appliations than others. Like I stated earlier, we couldn't tell any difference on my friend's car.

For best results with a carbureted car/truck engine; picking a carburetor that is sized correctly to the engine and calibrating accordingly would be my suggestion. And while I generally favor Carter/Rochester/Stromberg, not going to argue brands. The skill of the tuner is equally important to the brand of carburetor.

Jon.
Good carburetion is fuelish hot air!

If you truly believe one size fits all, try walking a mile in your spouse's shoes!

Owner, The Carburetor Shop in Missouri

Golden Jubilee
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Post Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:49 pm

Re: The myth of the 100 mpg carb

My knowledge comes from aircraft where it was used for take off only.
Last edited by cornbinder89 on Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Golden Jubilee
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Post Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:50 pm

Re: The myth of the 100 mpg carb

20 years ago I was invited to a promotion at a local rent-a-hall. The promoter was hyping his electric probe in water making hydrogen. He claimed his system could make enough hydrogen to run an engine.
After 10 minutes of choking on his crap, I stood up and challenged him and his junk to make enough hydrogen to run the lawnmower, he had brought with him. I said the lawnmower must provide enough energy to make the hydrogen, no extension cord allowed. If he could make this happen, I would give him $500.
Up to this point he and his gadget had been making balloons filled with hydrogen explode. The no-minds were applauding each big bang.
I encouraged the attendees to Google what was happening. After he called me a bunch of expletives, the meeting dissolved. Only a few suckers bought into his crap.
My kids have been brought up with, "There is no free lunch!"

It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H. L. Mencken
I would rather have tools I do not need than to need tools I do not have
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Golden Jubilee
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Post Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:15 pm

Re: The myth of the 100 mpg carb

Hydrogen is not a fuel, it is a storage/ transmittal device. It takes more energy to "make" than can be obtained by re-combining with oxygen.

Golden Jubilee
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Post Mon Nov 25, 2019 6:46 am

Re: The myth of the 100 mpg carb

Singer song writer Neil Young (CSNY) spent quite a bit of his fortune trying to attain the legendary 100 mpg car. Neil loves old Lincolns and Caddy's from the 50's. He found some mechanic that said he could do it and put a lot of money his way. Nothing ever came of it other than the mechanic being quite a bit better off financially.

In the early gas crunch 70's I tried water injection on a gas hog Ford pick up I had. It made very little difference mileage wise and wasn't viable in cold weather without some sort or anti freeze added to the water. I believe it was alcohol. I was a back to the lander then and the wife and I had a homestead where we raised all our own food and tried to be self sufficient. Maybe some of you remember the magazine Mother Earth News, it was the bible for the movement and had great articles on how to raise chickens or build a log cabin but the "how to" mechanical articles left something to be desired. The water injection came from Mother Earth News and another one they touted was how to turn your V8 engine into a V4 there by saving gas. If I remember right you removed the push rods from four of the cylinders. Needless to say that never caught on either.
56 S120 4x4,

Golden Jubilee
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Post Mon Nov 25, 2019 8:55 am

Re: The myth of the 100 mpg carb

Never really heard of water injection as a mileage extender, what ever I read or knew about it was to quell detonation at high power setting. Kind of a EGR on steroids'.
Mother Earth put out a book on alternative power, had some stuff on building you own wind turbine, water turbine and methane digester as well as other stuff. Interesting read, but the ROI was low, a lot of work for just a few watts of power. The methane digester looked intriguing if you had tons of cow or pig manure and a warm climate to work with.
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Rusty Driver
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Post Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:19 am

Re: The myth of the 100 mpg carb

CB - I have no experience with aircraft (long story here, and I will not bore you with it).

Regarding the V-8/V-4:

Of course, most will remember the Cadillac V-8/V-6/V-4 fiasco.

In the 1930's, there was a gentleman here in Missouri with very little book learning who was a mechanical genius. He fabbed a "cutting option" on the acetylene torch, which when seen by a manufacturer's rep, received a patent (Ben got nothing from it).

He also reworked the intake and exhaust manifolds on a flathead Ford V-8 to use 4 of the cylinders to power the engine. The other 4 cylinders made a good air compressor. Of course, the carburetor also needed modification.

I wish I could have learned from him. I was maybe 7 or so, and he was in his 70's.

Jon.
Good carburetion is fuelish hot air!

If you truly believe one size fits all, try walking a mile in your spouse's shoes!

Owner, The Carburetor Shop in Missouri

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

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Post Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:10 am

Re: The myth of the 100 mpg carb

There are quite a few mfg that modified V-8's for 4 cyl run and 4 cyl compress. The problem with most is the compression ratio is too low on the compressor side to make it very good as a compressor.
I have seen a few Small Block Fords used in that way.
There was also the double check valve mounted in a spark plug threaded device that you screwed into the spark plug opening, with the engine idleing, it would draw fresh air into the cyl and compress it back up the hose. Problem was the area in the device was too small to make it a very good pump. Since the engine was at idle, the "compressing cyl" was always at a higher pressure than the intake, so little to no mixed gas got into the compressed air, but it wasn't a very good compressor.

Golden Jubilee
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Post Mon Nov 25, 2019 6:34 pm

Re: The myth of the 100 mpg carb

CB89: Can you explain this? You posted, "Hydrogen is not a fuel, it is a storage/ transmittal device."
I would rather have tools I do not need than to need tools I do not have
Thinking risks being controversial and possibly being offensive

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

Posts: 5171

Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:28 pm

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Post Mon Nov 25, 2019 7:00 pm

Re: The myth of the 100 mpg carb

Sure: You can't mine, drill or otherwise "harvest" Hydrogen from the environment. It is most often "made" by splitting apart water into oxygen and hydrogen electrically. You are takeing one form of energy and using it to make a gas that can be used to re combine with oxygen to release some of the energy used to split in the first place.
Its kind of like saying power lines are a energy source,it is not, they don't make energy but move it about the land. Hydrogen is a way to take electricity and making it mobile . It takes more energy to split it from oxygen then can be had by recombining it, so it is not a source but a storage medium.
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