politic on the board

Again, you forget that it is more complicated than that. I never blamed the small or common man for the screwed up health system. It has been screwed up by regulation, not allowing competition, yes, it has been unfair to allow large corporations to get a better rate than an individual or even a small business or group of small businesses. Heck, even the government gets a better rate. I was a small business man, I have had several. I am well aware of what it cost. But I was prevented, BY Government rules from Pooling to lower the rates for my employees. But, I guess we do not see it the same way. We can hopefully figure it out.
I am out of this for awhile, I have other things to deal with.
Let us all keep it relatively civil.

1st, I think this HAS been civil, no shaming, no name calling, just a discussion of issues.
2nd, Here in the US we have been cowed by big business to believe that anything government run is "bad" or Communistic, because it serves their interest to do so.
Many municipalities have government run utilities (gas, electric) and most run the water and sewer systems. municipality run utilities is a big drawing point for business to re- locate to that municipality. They are cheaper and there is more price stability.
We have, for over 100 years let the free market run and ruin our health system, it has culminated in where we are today.
I am saying it **** time to say enough, stop treating it like a luxury or optional item, and start treating it like a utility (necessity) . They had their chance (free marketers), lets all take it back, yes the business will get hurt, the health insurance business will all but disappear, big mega pharma will have to deal with one buyer if they want to sell their product here, like they do in most other countries.
Neither the present Dem's nor the Repb's are willing to stand up to these big interests, I am not blaming just one side. The ACA was doomed from the start precisely because it left the present system intact. The recently past Repb bill in the house will fail for the same reasons.
In many states, the "free market" of health insurance consists of one insurer, no one is preventing other from selling, but they choose not too. It isn't that there are restriction preventing them, it is that they think they can't make enough doing so.
I am not saying it is just the health insurance that is ruining health care, it is deeper than that, what I am saying is it is long past the time to say enough, nationalize our health care system and bring it into line with the rest of the developed world.
Remember, it was the free market that brought the crash of 1929 and 2008, there must be checks on the free market system.
If you take a hard look at the so called Communist Countries of the cold war era, the were much more like capitalist system allowed to run until one entity controlled all the things in that country, than they were communist. There was no equal shareing, the party leader were the ruling elite (equal to our executives or 1%'ers)
If you want to see a more true communism, look not to the east but the religious colonies in this country and Canada. We have true communism right here, not the way I choose to live but it works for them, and they are happy. I mean them no dis-respect, and if I have mis represented them I don't mean to. I have visited them on numerous times .

to many things we agree, in the way they operate and should, we may have some variance. I will not go into it. The keep it civil was more for anyone else who might want to post. As always, it is good to at least discuss things. Peace and be safe on the road Sir.

Like CB I've been self employed my entire life (mostly) did punch a time clock for about 6 months in 1977,

I bought insurance for my wife and I for years, it kept going up, up up,

we are pretty healthy lifestyle so we kept adjusting deductible until we basically had catastrophic coverage only, I think we had a $10K deductible,

And it kept going up, up, up, (this is WAY before ACA was even thought up), so when ACA passed we got notice to apply for it,

we were eligible for subsidy And we got to keep our DR, so that was good,

Last time I went to a hospital as a patient was in 1969 when I broke my arm as a kid, next time was when they discovered I had a cancerous growth on my kidney,

with all the tests, surgery, follow ups, cost was close to $100K, my insurance paid a lot of it, and they negotiate prices down, I still paid a good chunk out of pocket,

a year later my wife's appendix burst, emergency room, emergency surgery, extended hospital stay, close to $70K, which insurance covered a lot of, still good chunk out of pocket,

because of my downtime, and my wife getting laid off, we were told we now qualify for medicaid, no deductible, But we can't keep same DRs, as they don't accept medicaid,

not a big deal to me as I never went anyway, so got a new DR.

tore my distal bicep loose last year, $37K, medicaid covered it, lots of post surgery downtime, but we are OK.

If I hadn't had insurance at all we'd been on the hook for around $200K, I don't know who has that spare change but I don't,

Now, I'm a pre-existing condition person (cancer) with this new bill I may be refused coverage or get into "high risk" pool, which means VERY high premium,

no one who is healthy thinks they will get sick,,,,,until they do, sure insurance is a scam, but without it, we would've lost our house,

GOP thinks everybody will have money to pay their monthly premium (which by the way Will go up, because they are providing insurance companies with clients whether they think so or not, with ACA you paid a fine to Govt, if you opted out, with AACA you pay a fine to the insurance company in form of jacked up punishment rate if you wait to sign up),

the GOP will give you a tax credit at the end of the year for a small portion of the money you in theory had in hand to pay monthly,

this works out OK if you are in upper middle to rich income bracket, a large majority of people who were getting help with monthly premium thru subsidy or medicaid coverage will be losing this and instead getting a tax credit yearly that won't make a difference because they didn't make enough money to pay large enough tax to get some of it back,,,,it's kind of like 3 card monty,

Interestingly the GOP added to the bill an exemption for themselves, they get to keep their Cadillac health plan for life, which we the taxpayer are footing,,,,,

It will be interesting to see/hear temporary 45's fan base make excuses when they realize they are losing their coverage, subsidy,

probably what will happen is what happened Before ACA, they will use emergency room as a clinic, and file bankruptcy to avoid the monstrous bills, and again we the tax payer will foot their bills,

by the way for anyone who thinks they are bulletproof healthy, besides myself my brother in law who was Very healthy had a heart attack while working out,

he had quadruple bypass surgery After being put in a induced coma for 6 weeks, his final bill not counting rest of his life follow ups was close to $3 million dollars, tell me what you'd do to pay that bill off?

I've been quiet on the healthcare thing. I'd like to share what I think I know.
My wife has been an RN at the local big hospital for a few decades. I had her wonderful insurance during that time.
She retired. Early. No more wonderful insurance for me! I signed up with an "ACA Agent" in town. The premium was going to be kinda pricey until I mentioned I lived in CUTLER, CA. Evidently Cutler is the poorest of the poor and my entire premium (I was forced to get insurance for my 25 year old son and my wife, too) is about $120 a MONTH.
I know and you know that premium is stupid low and will go waaay up. For now, I'll take it!
I think Healthcare for a "1st World" country like us is a neccesity. It has to be included in the cost of doing business since business counts on all of us to buy, sell, work, produce, consume.
I was raised Republican. Republicans have fought universal healthcare for decades. It's time to have universal healthcare. It has to be subsidized to some extent by the gov't. Period.
My wife the RN has come home from work for decades with tales of healthcare system ABUSE.
It's obvious to anyone who has experienced the ER that you need to stay away from it. Everyone needs to, for our health and our overall country's financial health.
A "stat" procedure in the ER costs about 10-1000 times what the same procedure would cost at your PCP (primary care physician). And yet our current healthcare system allows folks to always opt for the most expensive way of doing things. This can't go on...in other words use the ER for your PCP. It cannot continue. Again, period.
I used to laugh at "pop-up" clinics and "urgent care" facilities until I realized that they offered awesome service at a fraction of the big ER experience.
As the owner of a small business you don't have to hit me with "what we can afford" with respect to universal healthcare. I understand it could put me out of business. However, it has to be done.

You, BRJ, Nikki, myself all have tales of the problem. I think both sides have taken a swing at the problem and failed to solve it.
It is time to solve this. What has brought it to a head, is the attempt, failure and another attempt and failure.
It is in the news now, and on the front burner, Lets all put pressure to solve it once and for all. We have plenty of examples to choose from and "working models" of what is possible.

In his Monday monologue, Colbert said: "Mr. Trump, your presidency, I love your presidency. I call it "Disgrace the Nation."
He also made a sexual reference to the male anatomy, saying of Donald Trump: "The only thing your mouth is good for is being Vladimir Putin's c— holster."


This guy Colbert has a mental disorder... sick to say the least...

I have to respectfully say, it amazes me how someone can get outraged over something like this yet find "grab her pussy" completely acceptable,

I guess it's a wonderful thing to have a sliding moral scale,

You, BRJ, Nikki, myself all have tales of the problem. I think both sides have taken a swing at the problem and failed to solve it.
It is time to solve this. What has brought it to a head, is the attempt, failure and another attempt and failure.
It is in the news now, and on the front burner, Lets all put pressure to solve it once and for all. We have plenty of examples to choose from and "working models" of what is possible.

Maybe he IS trying to drive the whole thing into the toilet in order to move to single payer, he did compliment Australia's single payer system the other day,,,,,,,,

or, he just wants to lower his own taxes even more,,,,,and shift the conversation away from Russia, hard to tell,

maybe Obama can turn up the volume on his secret microphone in the golden tower to find out,,,,

The fix for your medical system is as simple as adopting what Cuba, Canada, Germany, England and Australia have.
Our system here works well with only a few fails. No one goes broke in Canada because they need health care and no one gets rich on the back of the sick person. Our health system is maintained like the road on our front street. Our taxes and the government lottery pay for the medical services.
About a decade ago I suffered 4 years of intense care for cancer. All I had to pay was for parking. On the days when I didn't feel well enough to drive myself, a driver and minivan were sent to pick me up and deliver me home. I asked about the cost that I would have had to pay if I didn't have free health care. I was told $1,265,000. I would never let my family spend that amount on me.
I have the statistics on my home computer about persons going broke from having to pay for health care. I will find it and post it later.

Well, I found what I was looking for.
If changing this situation is important, those most affected are the ones to insist on change by getting out and voting.
Our average life expectancy in Canada is on the rise and is in the mid 80s. The US life expectancy remains in the 70s This has been attributed to our free health system that allows Canadian citizens to go for check-ups where a situation is discovered before it becomes terminal.
In the last 14 years, I had two life saving medial interventions. The cost to our family was the price of parking and nothing else.
When I was working my extended health from the company covered 100% of medications and other support like chiropractor and physiotherapy. Now that I am retired I get 70% coverage at no cost. I have the option of paying an additional $20/month for 100% coverage.
My old guy coverage also pays for my walkers, shower chair, blood pressure monitor, all lab testing, and diabetic blood testing tools. I get 100% on eye testing and my glasses are covered. If I want fancy designer frames, I have to pay the difference. Our medical system also pays for any in home modifications for accessibility and mobility. I qualify for an elevator but I prefer to use the stairs for as long as I can which may be longer because I am using the stairs. I may apply for an installed hand rail outside on the two sets of stairs from the deck to the lower sidewalk.
I bought an extra cherry-picker, (aka engine hoist) with my own money, to make my lifting life easier in the shop. I did not have the balls to ask for funding. After all, I can afford to pay, because I was not destroyed financially by getting older.

Our VA system is a disgrace and an outrage to the people we promised better, How about this, One system for everyone from the president on down to the dis-abled on SSI. For general wellness vets and active military can use ANY doc or facility, we would still need a VA to address the special needs of veterans, but lets cut wait times and get them the access they need. It would free up the VA system to deal with the special problems Vets face.
By make one system, one set a values problems in the system WILL effect everyone, and will need to be attended too.
In this country, I am surprised by an all to prevalent attitude, that if it doesn't effect me directly I don't need to bother myself with it. It shows in laws, and in services. By making one system it will effect everyone, if not directly, then someone close to them.
The time is now, the iron is hot, lets forge something good and lasting for our country!


On another note, I was told I needed a MRI of my lower back. I inquired into what it would cost. I was told $3500 to $4000, since I have a high deductible (only one plan offered in the State of Iowa) I would be paying the entire bill out of pocket. It took almost a year to save enough. I call to set up the MRI and to confirm the price and the ability to pay any additional in a payment plan. Once they knew for sure I was paying "out of pocket" they sent me to an outpatient MRI.... Total cost $450! A year of pain wasted. The difference in price is due to MM example of people useing the ER cause they have no other choice, the ER has to treat, and re-coop the loss from everyone else. We are already paying, lets just make sure we are getting our moneys worth.