Finally getting started


The workhorse

Rusty Driver
Rusty Driver

Posts: 177

Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:50 pm

Location: Below the pinky finger of the Mitten

Post Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:26 pm

Finally getting started

After too long, I think I have time, space and funds to start working on my 73 Loadstar 1600 grain truck.

Since I bought the truck from an online auction, sight unseen, the brakes have been an issue. A buddy was going to drive it home from the previous owner's, but felt something "hanging up" in the rear. The brake pedal seems to have little effect on the brakes. A friend and I went and bled the brakes- all of the bleeders opened easily. We did not bleed the hydrovac, I didn't even know it was there at first. Since then, I bled it and the passenger rear. Still no pedal. The booster and many of the lines and bleeders appear to have been installed recently, and all work, no line leaks. I limped it home on the back roads, using the engine and dragging rear brakes to slow down, with the post-transmission parking band brake as last resort.

I watched some YouTube videos and read a lot of the threads here. I jacked up the driver's rear and pulled the axle. I removed the outer lock nut and used it to buy a socket to remove the inner nut and any others, it is due tomorrow. When lifted from the ground, I am unable to turn the tires at all.(Tried both sides). Something is holding them solid, but the engine has enough to overcome this, of course. I pulled the lower access plug from the backer plate, but was unable to turn the adjuster star wheel in either direction. I see another plug up higher, but can't see how you could adjust anything inside there, due to the leaf springs blocking most access.

I don't see any threads exposed on either side of the lower star wheel, like that adjuster is fully retracted. Once the socket arrives, I figure I'll remove the inner hub nut- I'm hoping it is not turned so tight as to have the bearings being bound tight. I suspect the brake pads are holding the drum tight. If so, is the only chance to get them off loosening the shoe adjuster? Is there an upper adjuster also, and I need some special right-angle tool to access it?

The cast star that the rims bolt to, it is bolted to the brake drums. Is there a reason to not remove those five nuts and then pull the star from the drum? In one diagram I have seen, these are bolts from the inside of the drum, if not captured, I can see why loosening the nuts might not be possible.

I had a friend who worked a career as a mechanic at our local IH truck dealer. An amazing guy, he spent most of six years as crew chief for a P-51 Mustang in Africa all the way up to Germany. He had amazing war stories, as well as truck stories. He passed about five years ago and I still miss him, but even more now that I have this IH. He could have walked me through this no problems, I'm sure.

Now, I'm counting on you guy to do the same. Thanks in advance.

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

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Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:28 pm

Location: Lyman, IA

Post Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:04 pm

Re: Finally getting started

You will not be able to remove the drum bolts they are either D shaped or hex. If D shaped they hold against a lip in the drum but will spin as soon as they are loosened a bit, you need to be able to get on the inside to hold them against the lip, if hex you need to wrench to hold.
IIRC most loadstars didn't have star wheel adjusters. they had ecentric anchor pins. Look for nuts and double D shaped pin. loosen the nuts and rotate the double D to see if you can loosen the major adjustment. There also may be a scroll adjustment at the mid point in the shoe.

Before worrying about pedal, you need to be able to get the brakes adjusted properly.
See if you can get a diagram for the brakes you have. These are not going to be like auto drum brakes, where the bottom of the shoes are not anchored to the backing plate. These are more like air brakes where one end is anchored and the other end is moved by the fluid.

Rusty Driver
Rusty Driver

Posts: 177

Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:50 pm

Location: Below the pinky finger of the Mitten

Post Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:33 am

Re: Finally getting started

Thanks for the info on the drum bolts. It seemed like a way to reduce the weight I was fighting against, but also seemed too easy.
My LST says I have 16X5 Rear Brake Group 04210, with Front Brake Group 04120 and Power Brakes 04011.

There are two wheel cylinders per drum in the rears, with one bleeder at the top. I see what appears to be a star wheel through the bottom access plug, and that's what the YouTube guy had as well, but I'll go look for the double D pins.

Rusty Driver
Rusty Driver

Posts: 177

Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:50 pm

Location: Below the pinky finger of the Mitten

Post Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:12 pm

Re: Finally getting started

Well, while still waiting for Amazon to find my axle nut socket that I was supposed to get four days ago, I did some more research online. One of the fellows had an issue with his hydroboost, and another video showed how they work internally. I noticed that the piston must travel fully back to open ports to allow the fluid to depressurize the wheel cylinders. I thought, maybe that's my problem, the rears are actually locked on by hydraulic pressure. So, I figured I would loosen the bleeders and release any pressure, then the brakes would just slide back off.

Well, no such luck. No fluid came out of either rear bleeder. I took some pictures of the backer plates, bolt heads and what I think are star wheel adjusters, but don't have time to upload before I go to work tonight. Will have them up soon.

I'm back to thinking they are mis-adjusted too tight. Being non-self-adjusting, it wouldn't have anything to do with me backing the truck into the barn to work on it, would it?

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

Posts: 5170

Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:28 pm

Location: Lyman, IA

Post Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:29 pm

Re: Finally getting started

Ok, I found a break down of that brake code. It has two adjusting wheels and two double acting cyl. It is a newer design than I have worked on. In assents, it has two leading shoes no matter which way the drum is turning.
I have a .pdf breakdown but this site will not allow it.
I'll try an attach it to a PM, if that doesn't work, PM me with an e mail and I'll send it to you.

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

Posts: 5170

Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:28 pm

Location: Lyman, IA

Post Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:43 pm

Re: Finally getting started

The tool you need to access the upper star wheel is a "brake spoon" and you do need a to loosen the upper as well as the lower.
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Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

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Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:38 pm

Post Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:11 am

Re: Finally getting started

Interesting , going to keep an eye on this to see how it comes out . You already have the best resource in CB 89 that is available for problems like this and I see you have sparked his intrest . I'm thinking that the Hydro-vac may have some of your answer . It is tied in to your vacum system and if its not working then you get not much in the pedal response to the brake shoe . Try running the truck and when you shut it off listen close to the hydro-vac and see if it sounds like it is letting off air as the truck shuts down .
There is something going on at your wheels though , My axle nuts were taken off with a punch and a hammer , there were already indents on the nut faces from the previous owner that fit the punch for that pourpose , is the one on the passenger reverse thread ?

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

Posts: 5170

Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:28 pm

Location: Lyman, IA

Post Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:28 am

Re: Finally getting started

Bearing (axle) nuts are all right hand thread. Lug nuts can be left and right. The reason is that the bearing use a lock nut (outer) and are stationary, so there is no need for left hand thread. Lug nuts can loosen as there is no lock nut on a lug. Having one thread for the left and the other for the right tend to keep them on the stud if they do loosen. I would not have believed it to be true, but pulled a chassie backward for over 400 miles and lost some nuts. So I guess it does work!

Rusty Driver
Rusty Driver

Posts: 177

Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:50 pm

Location: Below the pinky finger of the Mitten

Post Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:21 pm

Re: Finally getting started

Well, something odd took place, I had replied to this thread, but it never posted.

I tried my theory of opening the bleeders to relieve fluid pressure holding the brakes "on" by there hydroboost, and got no fluid from either bleeder. So no luck there.

I got a cool PM from cornbinder89 with pictures of the manual showing my brakes. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. It shows two star wheel adjusters per rear wheel. I'm off work this week, so I got out there a little this afternoon. For some reason, I'm unable to attach the pictures I do have.

While digging through my toolbox for brake tools, I did come across an IHC tool, 18466CX? I think it is brake related...


I was able to turn the DS rear lower adjuster away from the axle a few notches, the others just got a spray penetrating oil, I'll try more tomorrow.

Rusty Driver
Rusty Driver

Posts: 177

Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:50 pm

Location: Below the pinky finger of the Mitten

Post Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:06 pm

Re: Finally getting started

Well, USPS delivered the replacement axle nut socket today- I must have measured wrong because 3.25" fits pretty loose. Re-measuring provides 3.1875 as more accurate. This one did work to remove the inner DS nut. It was pretty tight, but with no nut I was unable to turn the tires. I was able to remove the outer bearing, which feels fine, but even with some minor "persuasion" to the tires/wheels, the hub didn't budge.

I spent the better part of the day working the brake adjusters- I bought a new spoon, but that did not help. My best results were from a long, flat bar and hammer, trying to drive the wheels away from the axle. I have spent several hours at it on the left side, and everything is still bound up tight. I get play in the star wheel, but when it comes to moving it, most tools just slip off rather than turn it.

Any other tricks?
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