76' 1700 4x4 - Army


The workhorse

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Post Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:29 am

Re: 76' 1700 4x4 - Army

Where I live is an extreme heat warning, averaging about 110 degrees this week in Tucson, so going outside has affected my ability to give my truck its proper due time.

I counted the bolts again and I am pretty sure it is 12 bolts (some bolts are hidden in mud and grime). and then narrows to six bolts nearing the drive shaft.

The numbers on the axle shaft are 113705R1

I am hoping to power wash some grime and dirt off the front axle to get numbers today.

What oil does the rear axle use?
Attachments
113705R1Pic.jpg
Axle shaft numbers
Spicer2.jpg
Drive Shaft Picture
Rear axle pic.jpg
12 bots and 6 bolts

Golden Jubilee
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Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:28 pm

Location: Lyman, IA

Post Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:39 pm

Re: 76' 1700 4x4 - Army

I was talking about the number of bolts holding the axle shaft to the hub, 8 bolts.
It seams that IHC decided to use their own axle shaft, so I can't Id it that way.
I guess the next thing would be to drop both driveshafts and look on the end of the pinion for numbers.
Both front and rear should take 80w 90 GL 2 thru 5

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Post Sat Jun 24, 2017 3:05 pm

Re: 76' 1700 4x4 - Army

Oh, I see...yup 8 bolts.

I hope to power wash it today and do the next step of dropping the drive shafts.

Again, thanks for all the help!

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Post Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:59 am

Re: 76' 1700 4x4 - Army

Cornbinder89,

My friend took the truck to his shop and lifted it up for a powerwash. I asked him to drop the driveshafts (front & rear) and get the numbers off the pinion but he forgot. Right now it is at a body shop waiting for some cab work. I will try and get those numbers this week.

I do have some pics and numbers though that might be of some help -

I saw 69013 R3 on the front differential and on one of the axle arms I saw either 4T867A or 47867A. I took pics (prior to the powerwash) so there is still some grime.

Also, to your point about highway speeds, you are very correct. Even at 2,800 RPM's assuming a 7.17 gear ratio and no overdrive I am probably looking at 45 mph

Tire height in inches - 39
Direct 1 to 1 drive transmission
Axle ratio of 7.17

2,780 RPM's = (7.17 (gear ratio) x 45 (mph) x 1 (transmission w/o OD) x 336.13 (63,360 inches per mile / 60 minutes per hour x Pi) all divided by the tire height of 39 inches - Definitely a no go unless I obtain an overdrive transmission and free up the gear ratios of the front and back. I want to keep it 4x4 so if I can't get my diesel getting better top speed then I will stay with the gas 392.
Attachments
Front Passenger Side.jpg
Spoke wheel - says NAPCO at the center
Front Numbers.jpg
More archaic numbers
Front Driver Axle.jpg
Drive axle
Front Axle Covering.jpg
Covering
Axle Pass Numbers.jpg
More numbers
Axle Numbers.jpg
Some numbers

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

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Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:28 pm

Location: Lyman, IA

Post Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:05 pm

Re: 76' 1700 4x4 - Army

easy way to figure speed:
Tire rev/mile x ratio= engine speed @ 60 mph with direct trans, multiply that by and O/D ratio if you have one.
You can find rev/mile off of tire makers web catalogs but a good rule of thumb is:
9.00X 20/ LP 22.5 = 518-520 RPM
10.00x 20 / 11 22.5 = 500 RPM

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Post Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:21 pm

Re: 76' 1700 4x4 - Army

Cornbinder89,

I need you to tell me if I found something helpful -

I came across a 2011 year Weller Differentials Identification manual. I did a search for the rear axle casting number 161018R3 and it pulled up across reference to the RA44 axle listing in my LST. From there I saw the available gear ratios with the set, ring, and pinion part numbers. I did the same for my front axle casing number and it cross referenced to a RA30 axle for International Harvester with the corresponding gear ratios. Both show a 7.17 ratio. However, when comparing the two lists I find only one other common ratio - 5.38. If I am reading this correctly that will be the best gear ratio I can obtain given the axles I have while keeping it 4x4.

I have attached pictures of the two lists -

Thoughts if I am reading this correctly?
Attachments
Gear Sets Available RA30.JPG
Front axle gear ratios
Gear Sets AvailableRA44.JPG
Rear axle gear ratios

Golden Jubilee
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Location: Lyman, IA

Post Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:16 pm

Re: 76' 1700 4x4 - Army

You did good! That was the next place I was going to go. The Rockwell housing threw me a bit and I was looking through old ROckwell manuals.

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Post Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:23 pm

Re: 76' 1700 4x4 - Army

If I outsourced the ring & pinion swap to a shop how many hours should I expect per axle? Someone quoted me 7 to 8 hours per axle and that didn't sound right to me.

A 5.38 axle ratio with a .80 overdrive transmission starts getting into a livable speed for me ~ 60ish mph but what I am seeing in terms of axle gear prices (over 1k for each axle) and labor is causing me to rethink this - at least in the short term. Even if I stay with the 392 I ultimately (some year) would like to go with the 5.38 gears.

I came across a write up on a Sv392 rebuild from another website that claims in a heavyweight IH crew cab truck he is getting 12 mpg around the street unloaded. With a load on the fifth-wheel and at 19k pounds he is averaging 9 mpg at street legal speeds. Do you think that could be an exaggeration?

The motivation behind the Detroit Diesel is better gas mileage and much better hp/torque.

Golden Jubilee
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Posts: 5170

Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:28 pm

Location: Lyman, IA

Post Wed Jun 28, 2017 9:58 pm

Re: 76' 1700 4x4 - Army

Are you talking taking the truck to them and having them do all the work? if so it sounds about right (for exchanges). Are they going to change gears, or install and exchange? I doubt you'll find an exchange, and if they are talking about pulling your center section, removing and replaceing ring gears, then setting the preload and tooth contact, and re-install I say their estimate is on the low side. I know I couldn't do it in that time frame.
If you are going to pay someone to change the gear-set, (remove and install new gears) don't go with the best price, go with the shop with the best reputation! It is real easy to screw it up, and there are 100 ways to screw it up. I've seen the work of some shops that HAVE a decent rep and wasn't too impressed. I'm not that impressed with Weller either, their catalog is handy but I've had to "fix" some of their rebuilds.
The big question is: are gears available? Just because they show a number, doesn't mean it can be supplied.
Try W.M Cohen on the east coast (Penn) or Anderson Bro on the West coast (OR) and see what they have in new or used gearsets.
Anderson sold me some aftermarket gear-sets when I was re-ratioing my 2 speed axles. So far I have had no problems with them.

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Post Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:56 pm

Re: 76' 1700 4x4 - Army

Yes, I would be having someone do all the work. I have never changed out axle gears even in a light truck.

The gears are available online for both front and rear from ProGear and Transmission the front Dana Spicer Kit-Gear Set 5.38 P/N: 578793C91. Genuine Dana Spicer Light Axle new in the box is $1,200.00 and the rear Dana Spicer Kit-Gear Set 5.38 P/N: 597242C91. Genuine Dana Spicer Light Axle new in the box is about $1,450. However, the place I have it done I will likely let them source the gears and possibly look at some of the resources you provided.

I appreciate the feedback on time it takes because I had no idea and your perspective gives me a degree of confidence that the numbers one local Tucson shop gave me were high...possibly even too low. It's a local shop that does nothing but differentials. In talking with him though it seems the shop primarily deals in lighter trucks because the owner said he has only done a few of the bigger trucks - but differentials is all he does. I will check other places here in Tucson (I have only been here about 4 years so not terribly familiar with what the city offers).

I am definitely in no rush, but am trying to get a perspective of general cost and time. This is helping me plan out next steps.
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