part swapping?

I have purchased a 1972 loadstar 1750 truck that I hope to restore for use on the farm. I have the LST and the truck came with the DV-550 diesel motor and t35 tran/ 2 speed rear end. It has a good cab, butterfly hood, and a shutter grill. At some point the motor was replaced with a 404 that is no longer running. While looking for parts I found a loadstar with a complete 304 and 4 speed tran/ single speed rear end. The owner of the 304 had pulled the spark plugs and filled the cycliners with oil when he parked it five years ago. He also has a loadstar bus with a 304 four speed tran/ single speed rear end, power steering and a complete front clip that is in great shape. The questions are: Can I swap in the 304 and keep my five speed? Can I use the power steering from the 1800 on a 1750? Can the fenders from the bus be made to work on the 1750? Or should I look for a 9.0 diesel and keep every thing like it came from the factory?

Michael

It "can" be done but not easily. What's wrong with the 404? Is it repairable?

Going to a 304 might not be a good choice if you load heavy,the power difference between a 304 and a 404 is quite noticeable.

Since neither "donor" has a 5spd you'd have to find the proper bell housing to mount it (T-35) to a SV8,the MV8's are totally different.
Off the top of my head some other things you'd need from the donor...
Complete front and rear motor mounts and possibly the crossmembers.

For the PS I'd need more info,like your LST and for the donor would be nice but front axle code and steering code will suffice. The pump mounting from an SV8 is again totally different that that of an MV8,so there's issue #1 and I'm positive there's more,such as drag links...

Fenders are the same for the 1600-1800 fit wise,some early Lstars have parking lights,some don't and later not at all.

My honest opinion,stay away from the 9 liter,you'd be better off finding an 1980's 6.9 or 7.3 out of an S-series and get it from the fan to trans. including all mounts etc.
Plus to go back to a diesel,first it would have to have a vacuum pump if you want brakes and probably a lot more.

Another option is to use the 304 with 4spd and keep the 2spd rear. I'd keep the rear no matter what engine I used.

When I was in the business I sold a few "swap" set-ups for Lstars,so I have a good idea of whats involved.

You have to take into consideration that Loadstar's were last made in 1978 and 37 years is a long time,parts aren't as available as some may believe,new or used.

Thanks Scottso for posting. Whats wrong with the 404 is its missing parts such as the carb and air cleaner. The last time it was taged was in 2004. When the DV-550 went south, the owner replaced it with the 404. But I dont know if he ever got it to run.

The truck is going to be setup as a tractor with 5th wheel, gooseneck and bumper pull. I am planning to use it to haul in hay, and move my skidsteer/tractor. I have a pickup that I normaly use, but it is my DD, so with the Loadstar, I can leave it hooked up all the time.

The parts truck I got for $400.00, it has a good windsheld, d/s door, p/s fender
d/s hood and a straight front bumper. There are some other parts that I will take off and save. I only and the LST for the 1750. I have the VIN for the parts truck, but I don't Know where the VIN for the bus would be.

What about a Cat 3208 motor? I can get a runner out of a mid 80's dump truck for $1,200 it should have the same SAE 3 bolt pattern. Or I can get parts off of two other loadstar trucks. One has a 392 (bad, with parts missing) with 5 speed, or a 345 (bad, with parts missing) with a 5 speed also. Are the 6.9 and 7.3 motors inline-6's? If they are, I would have to find a dog house to use them right?

thanks
Michael

I agree with Scott,
Going to a 6.9 or 7.3 from an IH truck would be the closest to a bolt-in and is new enough to have better parts support. Both are V8 engines and are similar to the engines IH supplied to Ford for pickups. I say similar because the pickup engines did not have that SAE bolt pattern you'll want. The 9 liter V8 diesels were a later update of the DV550s and were only slightly more reliable. I suppose that they were competitive with the 3208 Cat, but better engines have been built since.

Dean

You have a complicated situation. Generally, it is always cheaper and easyer to repair what is in the vehicle then to pull and replace. In your situation, you have a vehicle that has already been adulterated, and don't know if it was ever running.
I would spend a little time looking over the 404 install and the condition of the engine itself. If it looks good, I would get the MV running and use it.
I would think long and hard about the 304. I think you'll find it too underpowered for what you aim to do.
If you are going to swap engines, then make it worth the effort. Don't go with what is at hand, but what will fit the bill, and make the effort worth it. To me, that would rule out a 6.9 or 7.3. The 3208 has its fans and its detractors. 6v53 or 5.9 Cummins are other possibilities.
To do engine swaps well takes a lot of work... the devil's in the details.

I agree with CB89. There are lots of Cummins packages on Craigslist, right out of Ram trucks. Try to avoid the early 24 valve with a 53 cast into the block (RF) to avoid possible cracking problems. If you get the right model, there is a vacuum pump behind the power steering pump.
A Cummins 4bta will likely be enough power for your application.

Thanks guys for posting. I was hopping to use the 304 sense it would be a "freebie" after you figure up the cost of the other parts. Oh well, free is never free. Thanks for correcting me on the 6.9 & 7.3 being v8s, I will have to study up on them. I would really like to stick with a IH motor. Should I keep the 304 and try to sell it, or let it go with the parts truck.

Thanks
Michael

Oh boy!

The 6.9 is the real close to the same size physically (and even appear similar) as the MV8's,so much so that the misnomer is the 6.9 was/is a "converted" MV8 which is not true. They use the same fuel and water pump's but that is ALL.

Now back to Mike and the 404...
1) Is the air cleaner & carb. all that's missing? Is the intake manifold for a 2 or 4 bbl?
2) Does it have a distributor (and if so is it a Holley or Prestolite)? Does it have a governor?
3) Does it have an emissions pump and/or EGR valve?
4) Is there a plate with vacuum ports on the intake that would go between the carb. & manifold?

I looked up carb's for the 404 and there are 3 basic models/types.
2bbl non governed (Holley 2210),2bbl governed (Holley 2300G) and 4bbl governed (Holley 4150G).
The carb. mounting gasket is the same for the SV & MV8's.
That means the carb. from an SV8 can be "made to work" but would require the right needles/seats,jets and power valve for it to work properly on an MV8 no matter which model carb. it is. (I looked and they are all different) It also means you'd have an air cleaner if the donor has one.

I ask ?'s 2,3 & 4 because they may have to be eliminated/disabled if you go with a carb. not set-up for any of those items.

As for the 3208,while a good engine it wouldn't be my choice. CAT parts are expensive and the 3208 has been out of production for years,which can make some OEM parts even more pricey. Plus the T-35 is not up to handling the torque,so you'd need a trans. for it that can. It would also be a pretty tight fit, I never saw one in a butterfly hood LS but, I have seen them with DV's and there isn't a whole lotta room.

Another detractor of going diesel is since your truck has a butterfly hood you would need to find a suitable exterior mounted air clean assembly and then fabricate the intake piping,which would include a cutout in the hood.
Also,going with an inline diesel will require at least a doghouse amd maybe firewall mods. A doghouse shouldn't be real hard to find(?),one from a later Lstar with a DT466 are probably out there and would give more than enough space.

In essence getting the 404 up and running may be the way to go for many reasons.
Going with the 304 would be a waste of time and money with what you plan to haul,it will be greatly underpowered and won't last very long.

Going diesel will cost a lot more and take more work and fabricating to accomplish.I only mentioned a few things that came to mind,I'm sure there's more.

SO, mull it over carefully crossing the T's and dotting the I's. In the end the most important question to ask yourself is how much do I really want to spend?

After you decide we can dive deeper into the steering question. Can you post (or (preferably) send me) a copy of the LST you have? Any idea of the years on the donor(s)? The chassis # can narrow it down,it's stamped on the left front frame rail besides being on the ID plate which on a school bus should be to the left of the pedals.

Hi Scottso, I can't answer any of your questions about the 404 from any of my pitchures I have. I hope to get the 1750 and the parts truck home by the end of the month. I will get the LST for the parts truck this week. And I will try to get the VIN # off of the bus when I get the parts truck. Right now I am just collecting parts and will start working on it this fall. If you PM me your email, I will send you the LST for both trucks.
Thanks
Michael