Golden Jubilee
Posts: 5187
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:28 pm
Location: Lyman, IA
Re: PTO Winch Advice Needed
1st let me say my electric winch use is limited. I used one on an in bed tow truck 40-45 years ago. I never remember a problem with the winch and it was used every day. I don't remember the spec's on the winch or the maker, but being that is was 45 years ago it wouldn't be much help.
The other was a light duty (Warn if I remember correctly) that was used to spin and self unload 12' diameter spools of broadcast coax at remote transmitter sites. It worked well but was only used very infrequently.
The tow truck had a std Ford alternator that needed to be overhauled or replaced every few months from the hard use.
If you are going to work an alternator hard, you need to go brushless, and get one that can handle a high duty cycle. (more on that later)
Battery chemistry and construction will determine the best charging protocol for the battery. Mixing say sealed AGM and flooded cell batteries in a bank will cause one to be damage and one to be undercharge. Lithium batteries should never be paralleled with lead acid.
A deep cycled battery needs a different charge protocol than a starting battery, and just paralleling it with the starting battery will not fully recharge it. This presents a problem for what you want to do. The solutions go from relatively inexpensive (coupla hundred) to the sky is the limit.
The best way is to separate the starting and running electrics from the deep cycle electrics. On two of my trucks, I did this with air start for cranking and everything else run off the deep cycles. Not an option on the Loadstar. On one of my trucks I didn't have room for the air starter tank, so used a Maxwell supercapacitor for cranking and everything else ran off the deep cycle bank. By not using a battery for cranking, it allowed me to optimize the charging for deep cycle service. Also my engine useage (running for 10 hr or more at a time) was ideal for recharging deeply cycled lead acid batteries.
Unfortunately, i don't think the super capacitors starting modules are made any more, they cost over $1000 when I bought mine and were a hard sell to make to most people. So I think that option may not still be available.
The most cost effective option would be two alternators and electrical systems. You would leave the stock system and starting battery as is, and add another alternator and charging system to deal with the deep cycle pack. This allows the starting battery to be recharged as a starting battery and the deep cycles to be recharged in a manor ideal for them. It would also allow different voltage for the deep cycle pack. You mentioned 24 volt, A lot of inverters and stuff is made for 24 volt, so it does hold some advantages, as well as lighter ga cable for the same work (lower amp draw).
A deeply cycled battery pack is going to take a lot of time to recharge under the best conditions, and there is no way to make the process fast, you can make it faster, but still time charging is the key. Mutli stage voltage regulators work, and work well, but time is still the key. Huge alternators don't speed up the process much, and many high output alternators can't handle running at max output for hours at a time.
On my trucks I used the Delco 25SI and 26SI alternators exclusively. They are 75-85 amp but can run 100% duty at that output. They did need modifications to add an external multi stage regulator, but did a great job. The 33 SI and 35SI or any brushless alternator would likely be a good choice. Leece Neville (Motorola- Prestolite) and NIpondenso all sell HD brushless alternators. All will require internal modification to run a multistage regulator.
There are also DC to DC charging systems that will hook to a 12 volt truck electrical system and will multi stage charge a deep cycle bank and the voltage of the bank doesn't have to match. In otherwords 12 volt input from the truck can multi stage charge a 24 volt deep cycle pack.
The cheapest solution and the ones that will give the poorest results just tie the deep cycles to the starting battery in one form or another. either with big diodes or with a solenoid (high power) relay.
DO NOT think you can put two batteries in series and pull power off the center tie and recharge by passing current through both batteries. In otherwords place two 12volts in series to get 24 and charge with a 24 volt alternator but also pull loads off just one of the batteries for 12 volt loads. This will kill both batteries. I can explain why, but it would take a lot of words, just trust me!
Cost wise, the simplest and cheapest would be the solenoid tie of the two banks together, about $50 in relays and such.
The most expensive (but also simple to hook up) are the DC to DC charging converters, your talking over $1000 for the units alone depending on how much current and how many banks of batteries you want to feed.
I think in your case the best bang for the buck would be if you can fit another alternator so you can have one for the truck and its electrical needs (starting ign etc) and one for the deep cycle bank. Cost wise, the making of the alternator mount and belt drive is going to be the tricky part, but if you are a good fabricator and can lay your hands on the needed steel to make the mount, it shouldn't cost that much. Used or rebuilt alternators aren't that expensive, I think the most I paid was $145 for a 25SI. The multi stage regulators are now going for around $200 and you'll need a little skill to modify the alternator, but I think you could yourself. Obviously, you need 24 volt units if you want to run a 24 volt deep cycle pack. The multistage regulator I used could be used alone, or with the original internal reg re-set to "float" voltage. I found that it worked best when hooked with the original as it tended to overheat and shut down when it had to carry the full load. A larger capacity regulator (more expensive) would be another solution, but I liked the idea of a fail-safe back up.
None of this addresses what winch, but I can see the advantage to either P/S (hyd) or electrical for a front mount. Only you can make the choice for you. Both have advantages. Unless you are pulling whole tree trunks, my guess is 3/8" line (and plenty of it) would be enough, along with snatch blocks for the tough pulls.