1973 Loadstar...possible water truck


The workhorse

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Post Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:35 pm

1973 Loadstar...possible water truck

Hi all,
My water hauler search has taken me all over the spectrum of older trucks, International, Freightliner, Mack, REO, and Brockway. While I love the KB series Internationals, and REALLY LOVE The Brockway 128, I have come to understand the upgrades of the S1600 series IDI diesel engines...I think my needs and my budget will fit nicely with an older Loadstar. Once every couple of months a ride into town 20 miles round trip for water in a 1500 gallon poly tank.

More specifically a 1973 IH Loadstar 1700. It has seen service as a local firetruck and then has been relegated to water detail at a construction company, before being purchased from its current owner as a cab and chassis.

I have not yet had a chance to crawl around on it but heres what I got from a phone call...

The truck has a 5 speed (no split?) rear with a PTO off of the gearbox( for water pump or PTO for a tilt bed), the former owner had replaced all wheel cylinders, new drums and pads, as well as an engine rebuild for the 345 gasser... 7000-12,000 miles ago. Reciepts are "somewhere"... "Runs like a sewing machine".

The truck had blown a rear brake line and the current owner replaced it and has tried to bleed the brakes but has had issues. They "work and then dont work"...leading me to believe the bleed procedure was not followed correctly or that pesky Hydrovac unit is FUBAR. Looks like he pushed the pedal with open rear cylinders and then closed them down. Maybe more to it?

Other than that the truck has a glass hood (rather ugly compared to the sheetmetal hood but...oh well) Tires are good and appears rust out is not much of an issue. GVW is likely under 26,000. More pics will tell.

Any helpful brake suggestions or more specific lookout points to share upon inspection?
Thanks!

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Post Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:09 pm

Re: 1973 Loadstar...possible water truck

I do not know the procedure, but I believe the hydrovac was not bled before trying to bleed the lines/cylinders.

Golden Jubilee
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Post Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:13 pm

Re: 1973 Loadstar...possible water truck

My experience is : Brake problems are rarely the hydrovac, but because few understand them, they get blamed alot.
Rule everything else out before pulling the hydrovac. I have 3, one off the truck and two original from the 40's and they are fine.

Pile of Parts
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Post Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:48 am

Re: 1973 Loadstar...possible water truck

OK Gotcha. Thanks for the help.

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Post Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:39 pm

Re: 1973 Loadstar...possible water truck

So I was able to get a VIN number as well as a GVW of 23,000 lbs. Can someone confirm just what exactly the GVW is? Sounds stupid but what my understanding is that this is the max weight on the road the truck can legally be. So the truck itself can weigh about 8,000 lbs and payload be 17,000 pounds?

The truck itself is an ex fire tanker "slime green" paint inside- without PTO I believe, also without 2 speed rear.

Also I have a question about mileage. Every post I read about the IH 345 mentions the teapot carb and then the subsequent Holley substitute for said teapot AND professes that these trucks guzzle fuel like no tomorrow. I realize its hard to predict mileage with a larger truck but what can I expect to get for my monthly 36 mile trip into town for about 12,000 pounds of water- one way full?

Is there a VIN decoder chart I can use, as well as where is the location of the "build sheet" I read about- that can give an idea about options on this truck.
Thanks!

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Post Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:57 pm

Re: 1973 Loadstar...possible water truck

So I will do my best. Others will probably have their own contributions. Weigh the truck empty, then subtract that from the 23,000, that will give you your allowed amount to carry. My guess about the Miles per gallon would be in the 6mpg, loaded or empty, just a guess. If you have the Chassis number, you can look on the Wisconsin Historical Society : McCormick collection That is where the chassis numbers are listed, and if it is newer than about the Mid 50's, they should be able to get you an Line Setting Ticket. check this link out: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1374&p=8229&hilit=wisconsin+historical+society#p8229

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Post Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:07 am

Re: 1973 Loadstar...possible water truck

So heres the next item I am learning about- split rim wheels. Theres a lot of talk and information on the web- some of it is complete MISINFORMATION with regards to what is indeed considered a split rim.

We have the "widow makers", Dayton 22.5 wheels for spoke wheels, Split ring rims for spoke wheels, Budd wheels and Pilot Hub wheels. I now think I know that the split ring rim and "widow-maker" are not the same rim. Both require caution during the inflation process. So it is likely that this truck will have either stock 20" Split ring wheels or 22.5 Dayton Wheels. Both have similar wedge- type clamps that need to be unloaded with nuts on before removing the wheel/tire assembly. Correct?

With all of that said, I am not adverse to installing Dayton wheels and aligning them slowly so they don't wobble. Some online say they hate these but I dunno- I wouldn't mind if they were less expensive and do the same thing.

Are there any guys out there running Budd style wheels on the 1970's era Loadstars? What would need to happen for that to occur? New brake drums? New axle? Loads of ca$h- I am assuming? Or would it be plug and play if I were to find a Dayton hub and then wheel/tires to boot at my local wrecking yard?

Oh, and also, can a truck such as this run different sized tires on front and back axles? Say, Dayton 22.5 up front on the steer, and a set of 4 matched 20 inchers on the rear (perhaps ever radials up front and ply tires with tubes in the rear)? It's only a no-no with DOT if different size and rated tires are on the SAME axle -correct?

Going to look at the truck this weekend. Perhaps I may be nearing the end of my water woes...that is almost- until I pony up for a 1500 gallon poly tank.

Suggestions? Input? Any would help- Thanks in advance. GT Egg :t3716:

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Post Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:04 am

Re: 1973 Loadstar...possible water truck

Pictures for those of us who are visually oriented does help. Hopefully CB89 will speak up, he is versed in the different styles of rims I believe. You could always send him a message.

Golden Jubilee
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Post Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:16 pm

Re: 1973 Loadstar...possible water truck

Greg the Egg wrote:So heres the next item I am learning about- split rim wheels. Theres a lot of talk and information on the web- some of it is complete MISINFORMATION with regards to what is indeed considered a split rim.

:

Ok lets start with a few definition of terms.
There are two basic types of wheel assemblys: Cast spoke and disk.
Disk can be stud pilot or hub pilot. This refers to what centers the wheel on the hub. Stud pilot uses the studs to center and hub uses the center hole to center.
A rim refers to the metal band that holds and supports the tire
A Wheel is a rim attached to a metal disk that gets bolted to the hub
Spoke hubs take demountable RIMS
Disk hubs take wheels, either stud pilot or hub pilot.
Dayton and Budd are mfg of rims and wheels. They are sometimes in slang useage refering to a type of rim or wheel. This isn't correct and can lead to confusion but generally when someone say Dayton they are refering to spoke hubs and the rims assocated with them, conversly when Budds are mention they are refering to STUD pilot WHEELS.
All three types can be either tubeless or tube type.
Tube type truck tires have an even number size 17" 18" 20" 22" 24". tubeless have half sizes 17.5" 19.5" 22.5" and 24.5"
In heavy truck sizes tube type go on multi piece rims. They can be 2 or 3 piece lock ring style or in the case of disk wheels semi drop center 2 piece wheels.
When people use the slang "widow maker" they are generally refering to one type of wheel, the Firestone RH 5 deg wheel. This wheel is only made for disk type hubs (not spoke hubs) and was generally found on Ford and GM products and also Studabaker trucks.
Because tubeless rims require a center "gutter" that is smaller in diameter than the outer edge of the rim to allow the tire to be mounted, the equalivent tire and rim size is larger than the tube type it replaces. you add 2.5" to the rim size and one width size up to get the equalivent tire, so an 10.00x 20 is replaced by an 11x22.5. both are the same outside diameter and revs per mile and will carry the same weight for like ply ratings. They can be used next to eachother as long as they are of the same construction (bias next to bias, radial next to radial)
To change the style of rim, you need to change the hubs.
I'm not sure what you mean by they needed to be unloaded before the nuts and wedges removed? The truck needs to be jack off the ground, but the rim and tire can be removed while aired up.
If the truck in question has spoke hubs, you can use either 20" tube types or 22.5" tubeless.
On the rear hubs the wedges and rim spacers have to remain with the hub they were designed for. Do not intermix spacers or wedges from other hubs of a different make or size.
Tires can be of either constrution (bias or radial) in either tube type or tubeless. I have 22.5 tubeless bias and plenty of 20" tube type radials.
Radial tube type require radial tubes, bias can use radial tube or bias tubes.
Disk type wheels can be tube type or tubeless, the wheel determines what tire it needs.
Last edited by cornbinder89 on Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Yard Art
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Post Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:09 pm

Re: 1973 Loadstar...possible water truck

CB89's post should be a "stickey". When all of the information that he wrote is presented like that it makes the subject very understandable.
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