The journey of the Loadstar rebuild

Hi,
I'll address the points brought up in the previous post this weekend.

Quick question: What would the probable engine be in a 69 Loadstar 1700 Fire Engine, Max GVW 24000 lbs I believe built in Canada with gas V8 with Cert. Net. H.P. 217.5 at 3600 RPM and Cert. Gr. H.P. 235.6 at 4000 RPM? Any way to tell by photos of the engine top-side?

The owner has reconsidered selling his Crewcab LS because he wants to put a Chevy nose on it So now I'm considering a nice, rust-free low mileage 5-speed Fire truck as the basis of a 4x4 IH conversion - any market for a fire truck bed, pump and hoses?

Steve

Hi,
Quick question: What would the probable engine be in a 69 Loadstar 1700 Fire Engine, Max GVW 24000 lbs I believe built in Canada with gas V8 with Cert. Net. H.P. 217.5 at 3600 RPM and Cert. Gr. H.P. 235.6 at 4000 RPM? Any way to tell by photos of the engine top-side?
Steve

Based on the figures, I would say it has the SV-392 gas engine.
Photos are always encouraged.

I am going to guess you don't have a written plan. I took the time to reread this topic from the beginning. I hope you have lots of disposable income. This could easily run into $25,000 and maybe more. I have all of tools, including the HOGAN magdrill. My estimate is based on having the tools. Renting would bring the cost up. Do you have an indoor shop? While a build like this could be an outdoor shadetree job, this is less than ideal.
Knowing when to "Tapout" is important.

From an IH service manual.



The answer is a 392.

Is the truck you're looking at now a 4dr. cab? If not then WHY are you considering this??? If it's due to the frame issue on the 4x4 there are other way's to remedy such things and the frame can actually be stronger as a result.
I really feel swapping the drive train in a Loadstar is going to open a can of worms.
I really agree with Brian,he has mucho experience with jobs like this albiet with smaller models but with what you propose it's not all that much different. Plus he has the tools to fab what parts which makes a big difference in costs.

If you really want a 4dr. 4x4 though maybe you should be looking for one. The California forest fire service had 100's of them over the years,so did the U.S. forest service. I checked the map and where you are now (the boondocks) I'll bet you can find one.

There is a market for fire pumps and hose,maybe the body. Old hose can be used for things like a restoration or irrigation and if not too old and can pass testing, for fire fighting. There are many rural FD's that can't alway's afford new hose

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=fire+hose+testing

If the hose is within parameters maybe the local FD would appreciate a "donation"? Put a value on it and you could likely use it as a tax write off as well(?). Plus since firefighters are the most numerous collectors/restorers talking with them could give you leads about the other things.


It's a real shame the guy with the 4dr. cab has had second thoughts. Putting a chevy nose on it just ain't right first of all!!! If it's a sheet metal nose they're not really any easier to work under the hood on,sure it's roomier but you still need steps or something to get to anything. Plus where the hood meets the cowl is nowhere near the same shape,maybe with a 50's model it's a little closer but, would look just plain stupid. Same hood to cowl issue with a tilt hood.
Talk about a can of worms!
He'd be much better off finding a LS tilt hood,as I described elsewhere in this thread it will fit right as long as you have all the parts to do it.

Hi,
To me it seems my LS 4x4's frame will require extensive, high dollar repairs to be done right. I'll list all I see wrong with the frame in the next paragraph.
A crewcab would be ideal for my camper conversion, but a cab that I know is rust-free is more important to me. The passenger door hinge attachment area is rusted away on my 4x4's cab. But this fire truck has clearly been in a garage most of its life. Also it would be very nice to have a 392 with a 5 speed that doesn't need rebuilding. The 392 in the firetruck only has 15k miles. Even tripling that for time spent idling, the engine still has a lot of life in it, and the trans should be like new. I saw the video of it driving - no smoke at all and idling hot at 700 rpm it was showing 25 - 30 psi oil pressure. Plus it has an unmolested frame.

I bought my LS 4x4 knowing I would expect to have to go through everything before putting it on the road. But I did not count on the frame being so messed up. First, the frame has been cut with a torch right at the spring brackets - back and front of the truck. I don't know how it can be welded back into place because of the way and where it was cut. You can see the rear frame part sitting strapped behind the cab. Then very sloppily one d-ring was welded to what was left of the front frame rail, drivers side. 3 - the front axle bump stops were torched off the frame. Now if you hit a big enough bump the axle pumpkin will hit the engine's oil pan. 4 - Also they stretched the frame 2 feet - which would be ok with me if they did a better job of it. Below you can see one of the stretch welds - no reinforcing plate was used at any of the stretched frame welds. 5 - However, both frame rails are also split with a 1/16 to 1/8 in. gap at the top of the split, but the splits are not at any of the four stretched frame welds. (The yellow strap is covering the frame split in the picture below). Their fix was just to weld the plate you see on the side of the frame to both frame rails, but not weld the two split's open gaps. Finally a funny-looking frame reinforcement is welded to each frame rail under the split and part of the frame stretch piece. I don't think that's how it should be done.
I consider the frame the backbone of the truck and while I could live with / fix one or two frame issues, I don't feel comfortable building / driving the truck with all these frame issues.

I don't know how to weld frames or fix rusty bodywork. But I feel I can do most any other mechanical work needed on the truck. So a solid foundation is important to me, including my preference of a rust-free standard cab over an unknown condition crewcab cab, and a straight, unbroken frame.

I don't understand why it would be so expensive to swap axles and install the transfer case. Many years ago I did it to a 57 Chevy 1 ton panel truck - put a Dana 70 front axle from a 74 Dodge W300 (after changing the r & p to 5.13 to match the Chevy's rear axle) and installed an NP205 transfer case. The panel truck looked like it had a stock NAPCO conversion when I was finished. As I recall the most expensive part of the entire conversion, other than the purchase of the truck, were the drive shafts. I just used a hand drill to drill the transfer case mount holes - but I was young and stronger then. Eventually sold the truck for a house down payment. Perhaps with the fire truck I might be lucky enough to just swap its r & p to a 6.16 to match the 4x4's front axle as its a single speed rear axle.

Yes, unfortunately the LS Crewcab's owner now has his eyes set on putting a Chevy nose on the LS crewcab then setting the entire cab on a stretched Chevy frame and drive train. I told him I'm sure it would not look as good or be as strong and dependable as just restoring the truck as it is.

Good point about putting the auxiliary transmission behind the transfer case. True, I'll never use overdrive anywhere except on the freeway, and never in 4wd, but positioning one in front of the other probably does not matter now if I'm using this truck's 4wd axles and transfer case in the fire trucks cab and chassis.

Does anyone know if a sleeper type cab / addition was ever made for the LS standard cab? A quick search of google turned up nothing, or at least nothing that fit the styling of the LS. I wonder if companies custom make them - for a reasonable price.

Thank you everyone for your comments and advice.

.

.

And here's a picture of the strange under-frame reinforcement welded to each frame rail. It's in the picture above too but can't be seen well in that picture.

.

I guess if you're that concerned about the frame,then do it. The frame is the the structural foundation and must have integrity.
From what I can see in the pic's,whoever did it had no clue on the proper way to do frame work on a med./hvy. duty truck frame.


Here's a pic of how it should be done.
http://www.majestictruck.com/assets/gal ... 0_0307.jpg

The frame flanges should NEVER be welded on. It removes strength and is against the law. Trucks have had decals on them for years, "DO NOT drill or weld frame flanges".

These are the frame bolts we sold/used.


They have a matching prevailing torque nut in-which about half the threads are "waved" and once tight stay tight.

It will be a LOT of work though. Do your homework and take tons of measurements and photos for every item that must be swapped. It may also be easier in the long run to remove the cab and nose (especially the nose) for better and clear access. Another reason being, if you use the aux. trans. shift rods/linkage will have to be fabricated and would be much easier without the cab. Plus you can inspect the bottom of the cab and fix anything that needs it and add undercoating.

I'd say the rear has a good chance of matching if it's an RA-25 or 30.
I never saw or heard of a LS with a sleeper,the Fleetstar 2000 yes which used the same cab. It was just an add on box style used at the time,probably built by Bentz(?) who was IH's supplier for years.

Here's a pic I found a few years ago, it's a BC-225D,thought it was kinda neat. The AC & BC models were predecessors to the LS,same basic cab.


I sure wouldn't want to sleep in that thing,too cramped for me at 6'2".

I've NEVER seen a sleeper of that configuration on an I.H.C. conventional. THANKS for the pic! I have seen them,(RARELY),on the Diamond-T "Bustleback" C.O.E.'s,and Ford C-Series C.O.E.'s-Late '50's early '60's.

Wow, what happened to all my pictures??
Guess I need to find all the originals and upload them all to my own web site so I can permanently link them to my posts.
Regardless, to bring this journey up to date, after my move, I was laid off from my new job here so my new place fell out of escrow. Therefore haven't been able to work on my trucks the way I wanted. In fact one is still waiting for me to have it towed to here.
Regardless, if anyone can answer this question, it would be appreciated as all my parts books are still all in storage.
Can anyone tell me if a No-Spin (the IH name for a Detroit Locker) model number 275-16 will work in a IH 1600 with rear axle RA25 axle code 14025 or front axle FA58 axle code 02058?
Is there any additional identifying info you need to answer this question?
Apparently that No-Spin was used in a '62 IH 1600 Loadstar, so I am hoping it will work in my '65 IH 1600 Loadstar 4x4. But Loadstars came with several different axles, so please someone with a parts book let me know.
Thank you.

The Classified crashed, will not be back. The Gallery is getting issues also. We are working on something tied into the Forum for pictures. I like your Idea of having a separate site for your pictures. You can either link to them or upload to forum in you posts.

AXLE QUESTIONS:
Hi,
It's been a long time since I've done this kind of mechanical work.. .
If I want to find the gear ratio of the rear axle, I know I just turn the drive shaft until the tire makes one complete revolution and / or the other way around. For example if I turn the rear wheel one complete revolution, if the drive shaft spins slightly more than six times, I know I have the common 6.16 axle ratio, correct? But do both sides of the axle have to be off the ground to prevent the spider gears from influencing the result, or does it not matter if one tire remains stationary?
How can I find out what model rear axle I have? Truck plate specs: Max GVW 24,000 lbs, single axle, dual wheels.
And Is there someplace that lists the possible ratios of each axle type for a '69 1700 Loadstar? My parts books are all still in storage.
And can a Dayton style spoked hub be converted into the other style (I think called a Budd)?
Unfortunately the Wisconsin Historical Society does not have the line setting ticket for my truck, so is there any back-up alternatives, other than asking a lot of basic questions here?
Thank you.