diesel swap


Yard Art
Yard Art

Posts: 50

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:29 pm

Post Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:55 pm

diesel swap

Hey guys, I have a 1958 international a-110 that needs some help. It runs great and I've driven it everywhere with no problems, but the engine is getting sad. It rattles and knocks and leaks and smokes, I've put new rings and bearings in, which helped some, but it desperately needs rebuilt or replaced. It's the BD240. I've been tossing up two ideas, rebuild or replace it and turbo it, maybe adapt a t-5 transmission to it, or diesel. nikkinnutshop highly recommends the cummins 4bt, but sadly, so does everyone else, because they're expensive! But then, I saw this and made up my mind - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GowJeGcf_Kk. best of all, My BIL has a 1996(ish) F450 lying around with a 7.3 powerstroke and 5 speed transmission!
So now my question is, how feasible is this swap? I haven't actually taken a tape measure to it yet, but from what I see online, it looks like it will fit. And how will the rest of the truck hold up? If I do it, i'll definitely need a new rear axle (which sucks because I just swapped in an explorer 8.8 last year) but how about the front axle and frame? should I box it? I'll definitely fabricate some sort of disc brake conversion for the front, but I'm not sure if the axle itself will hold up to all that engine...
Thanks!
-Isaac

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

Posts: 8937

Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:45 pm

Location: Canada's left Coast

Post Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:00 am

Re: diesel swap

I stupidity did a 6.9 in an R120 4X4. This turned out to be really difficult, costly and time consuming. These engines are so big and heavy. This requires serious modifications to the firewall, frame, front axle, inner fender aprons, radiator and Steering. The 7.3 Power Stroke will require more space than a 6.9 because of the turbo and related plumbing and intercooler. The PS weighs about 1200#.
I can post a few pictures when the forum will allow it. Would I do this swap again? Absolutely not. A 4 or 6 bt series Cummins will fit with very few modifications ,out perform the PS at a lower installed weight.
If you are interested, we can talk. Just for interest, there are still lots of 4bta engines around at reasonable prices and less costly than an SD rebuild.
My friend has a twin compound turbo 24 valve Cummins in his L110. It fits and is terrifying fast.
I would rather have tools I do not need than to need tools I do not have
Thinking risks being controversial and possibly being offensive

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

Posts: 8937

Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:45 pm

Location: Canada's left Coast

Post Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:41 am

Re: diesel swap

BTW :
We drove the R120 for two decades and 225,000 miles before retiring the truck and engine. The 6.9 was an ongoing work in progress of chasing oil leaks. When the left cylinder head cracked and started leaking we parked the truck.
One of the serious modifications to accommodate the 6.9 was cutting into the firewall and setting a section, the dimensions of the engine, back 8 inches.
These engines need lots of cooling and a 4 row custom built radiator was $1500. It was built to fit the available space behind the grill. The original 7 blade belt drive fan was kept and used. The fan was driven by 3 belts and moved tons of air, so much air that the unlatched hood would lift when the engine was reved up. This showed a problem with air not being able to escape the engine compartment and more modifications were required to get the hot air out. These lumps of iron are difficult to cool and the 6.9 was underpowered and made less power than the Cummins 4bta we are installing in an L110, now.
The 4bta is a natural fit, weighs less than an SD and the steering column will not have to be changed, if this is your choice.
I would rather have tools I do not need than to need tools I do not have
Thinking risks being controversial and possibly being offensive

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

Posts: 8937

Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:45 pm

Location: Canada's left Coast

Post Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:16 am

Re: diesel swap

We got the 6.9 into our R120 and making it fit and work was cubic dollars. With three times the performance of the original SD lump of lazy iron, we needed better brakes and an air suspension for the weight. The decision was made to go with 4X4 and disc brakes all around.
I kept the receipts for the build and following modifications until I gave the R120 to MAGIHC MIKE as a parts only truck. The initial push was $26,435 and that increased by a few grand over time.
While being a show stopper, for a few years, and an attention grabber, the combination never was quite right.
Some of the situations that continued for the time we had the R were cooling, tight fit for the exhaust pipes. Very close fit for the starter and lower radiator hose. The engine is quite tall and with the smallest allowance for front axle clearance, we had to raise the cab, followed by the box,1.25".
The original frame was built up and eventually cracked.
I'm not saying that a person should not attempt using this engine in a transplant, but knowing up front that it can be a difficult fit and an ongoing problem might be of interest.
I would rather have tools I do not need than to need tools I do not have
Thinking risks being controversial and possibly being offensive

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

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Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:26 pm

Location: Dinuba, central CA

Post Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:34 am

Re: diesel swap

I have to agree with Nikki, that's too much engine for an old IHC.
Next time you see a newer Ford, Dodge, Chevy diesel pickup look under the truck at the size of the frame in the engine area.
3" x 5 or 6 inches on IHC is just small. It's fine for something lighter.
I've installed a few power strokes in customer's vehicles. Very heavy.
The Dodge diesel (Cummins) guys tell me that Chevy and Ford Diesels boggle their minds due to their complexity.
It's so much easier working on a Cummins.



AND...what's going on with the attachment freeze?
I want to upload pictures!
Still says "Sorry, board quota has been reached" on my end.
1933 IHC Bus. Cpe
1933 IHC B-3 f
1935 C-1 IHC pickup
2 x 1936 IHC C-30 Fbs
3 x 1938 IHC D-2 Pickups
1938 IHC D-30 fb
1941 IHC K-1
2 x 1947 IHC KB-1 Pickups
2x 1953 IHC R pickups

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

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Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:28 pm

Location: Lyman, IA

Post Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:40 am

Re: diesel swap

I think you need to sit down and fairly and accurately assess you goals, skills and budget. If you are looking for bolt-in with no mods then a stock rebiuld will be best, slight mod's turbo on a stock rebiuld, an all out fab job then engine swap. Brian has the skills, tools and materials to make something look like it "grew there" from the get go. I have neither the tools nor easy access to meterials so if I were doing it, would look more towards a turbo on a stock engine block.
I have owned several and still own several diesels. While they have some good points, they also have some bad. I am happy NOT haveing a diesel in my "cars" (be that a pick-up or light truck, or car).
Never under-estimate the time involved to fab something new. If you don't have a pattern to work from and need to make something that was never there, a lot of time is involved, and sometimes several changes or test pieces are needed to "get it right". How much time do you have to devote to the project?
I am not suggesting one route over another, rather that you make your choice with your eyes wide open.

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

Posts: 8937

Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:45 pm

Location: Canada's left Coast

Post Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:16 am

Re: diesel swap

While it might be just a little bit easier, but still no "walk in the park ", so to speak, a DUROMAX V8 is a really good engine with a very good reputation. They just don't break unless abused. A 6.6 V8 is 669 pounds which is less than a 220SD. The 6.6 is smaller, dementionally, than the PS.
Our local GM recycler has dozens of DUROMAX for sale at affordable prices. The original frame will still need "some beefing up " because if you have the traction and the power the OEM frame will twist.
Don't worry about the electronics. This is on wire at at a time. There is lots of help and kits available.
CB89 knows Diesel better than most people. He has suggested that there are better options and he is correct.
Why do I go with Diesel? I need some pain to add that special meaning. I like and use Cummins because they fit, are a good power to weight ratio and CUMMINS WORKS without getting all fussy.
I would rather have tools I do not need than to need tools I do not have
Thinking risks being controversial and possibly being offensive

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

Posts: 5170

Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:28 pm

Location: Lyman, IA

Post Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:38 am

Re: diesel swap

If I had unlimited time and money..... I would take a stock block, port inject, add a turbo and intercooler, swap rear to something that could make use of the extra torque without the higher engine speed of the stock rear, add Wildmans disk brakes... Have I spent enough of your money yet?

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

Posts: 5170

Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:28 pm

Location: Lyman, IA

Post Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:18 am

Re: diesel swap

If you really want a diesel, you might consider the IHC 282 or 301 ag engine. It also was used by Palmer marine. I have heard mixed revues at best for this engine, but IHC did put them in some pick-ups. Looks similer to the 240 block. Should fit ok.
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Rusty Driver
Rusty Driver

Posts: 134

Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:43 am

Location: Malmo, Sweden

Post Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:33 pm

Re: diesel swap

Let's throw some gas on hefire... What about an early GM 6.2/6.5? They're small, cheap, and simple.
I use them in both of my C-series and I'm happy with the power and mileage they provide.
---
Paul Wargenstahm
Lord of Chaol Ghleann

Feel free to visit my IH pages at http://ih.wargenstahm.se
for tips, tricks, and lots of build pics and info.
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