diesel swap


Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

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Post Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:09 pm

Re: diesel swap

SOME PICTURES 6.9 IN A R120
Attachments
R120 power steering bracket and 6.9 Diesel.jpg
DIRTY MESS
R120 6.9.jpg
FULL ENGINE COMPARTMENT
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Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

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Post Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:22 pm

Re: diesel swap

You guys do realize this is an A-series which has a larger engine compartment then the earlier models?

Personally I would go with the 4BT,it would be more than enough for the size of your truck. Another reason I'd choose a Cummins is parts,Cummins has dealers in just about every large metropolitan area in the U.S.
Plus almost every heavy truck dealer is a Cummins parts vendor,Freightliner for example builds step van chassis' that use the 4BT extensively.They also have pretty reasonable pricing when compared to other brands.It might seem trivial now but,there are certain parts where only new will do.

Use Google etc. and search using different key words. I did one using "cummins powered step vans" and it gets "about 12,800,000" hits alone.This got 146K hits "cummins 4bt takeouts"

Here's a site that could be insightful...
http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/forum.php ... c8dd364945

Though I'm sure they'd gasp at your plan for an old Binder,but what do they know? lol


Hey Brian,got a pic of the shoe horn you used? Must be a big un!
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Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

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Post Sat Jun 07, 2014 6:16 pm

Re: diesel swap

I know better than to mess with you, Scottso, and say that "we just dropped it in there". The shoe-horn looked very much like a few STARRETT tape measures and a debit card. I like CB89's comment, "You should not use an engine that just happens to be sitting around". or something like that. The form should follow the intended function. One could do well by reading SLOSPEED'S Cummins in a K tuck story. I was pleasantly surprised at the very good price that he paid for his 4bta, including the shipping half way around the world. There are deals out there if a person wants to spend the time looking and then only if this is something they really want.
I cannot be too critical about others old tech engine choice. For no other reason than I thought it looks good, I put an EATON M92 Supercharger and TEC3r electronic engine management on a Ford Flathead, V8. I could have had a real engine for less. My wife has suggested that we try a 4bta in the Ford, next time. Yup, I measured and it will fit. What's that noise?
I would rather have tools I do not need than to need tools I do not have
Thinking risks being controversial and possibly being offensive
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Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

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Location: Melbourne Australia

Post Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:00 pm

Re: diesel swap

Brian

I kept getting told just fit a 6BT into the K as you will find them all over the place here, yes could find them yes they were a lot cheaper yes they would fit once you hacked out the entire firewall and you end up with nearly 2 cylinders in the cab with you but yes they are a lot heavier and when I looked at the engine specs my question was WHY.

Trevor
Attachments
20140308_103040_resized.jpg
http://www.vihtr.com
Veteran International Harvester Truck Registry
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International Harvester Trucks Pre 1940

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

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Post Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:19 pm

Re: diesel swap

If we accept that a 4bta is about 720 pounds and four cylinders, and a 5.9 litre six, 12 valve is 950 pounds, I think that is reasonable when allowing for the extra crank and block, cam length. The 24 valve isb gains about another 250 or so pounds. I think much of the extra weight is in the cylinder head.
I have a feeling that Cummins put a lot of engineering into their 3.9 and 5.9 engines so they would be a good fit into so many situations. These engines have become the SBC of Diesels. The aftermarket makes lots of stuff for these engines.
I have little to no experience with the 1940's trucks and the special challenges that there may be with them. I really like the styling, but my big butt does not fit, easily. I owned a 1926 Ford Model "T" that I never got to sit in, because.........
I would rather have tools I do not need than to need tools I do not have
Thinking risks being controversial and possibly being offensive

Yard Art
Yard Art

Posts: 50

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:29 pm

Post Sun Jun 08, 2014 7:49 am

Re: diesel swap

wow, it looks like half of the 6.9 was in the cab with you! believe me, I've been searching very diligently for my new cummins now, I have found some deals, but I'm waiting for one that is not 15+ hours away, Is that being picky? :t3717:

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Post Sun Jun 08, 2014 8:06 am

Re: diesel swap

It would depend on the condition of the motor, 15 hrs is under a 1000 miles, but then I am retired and have time to travel. If you have a way to get it loaded and unloaded at both ends, there are transporters that may haul it as a "space filler" for a reasonable rate, Especially if it is all crated up. Have you looked for a running vehicle with that particular motor in it? Sometimes you can pick them up cheaper than the just the motor itself. If you have the place to put the vehicle while removing what you want, then scraping the rest, it even can reduce your costs. just some thoughts.

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

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Post Sun Jun 08, 2014 8:38 am

Re: diesel swap

May be I don't express myself clearly. I wasn't saying put a 6B in but buy a cheap blowen 6b for the AUTOMOTIVE parts (flywheel houseing, fan drive etc) for an industrial 4B. There were a lot of 4B's used industrailly, more then were used in automotive.

Golden Jubilee
Golden Jubilee

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Post Sun Jun 08, 2014 12:46 pm

Re: diesel swap

Parts fitting both is another well thought out bit of engineering.
I plan on using a 24 valve isb in an R series, but I am going into this with my eyes wallet wide open. Whist the engine will fit and work really well, it is the weight that will add considerable expense, because it cannot be ignored. I have owned this 24 valve for more than a decade and while the buy price was a little high, at $4700, the engine has only a few thousand kilometers on it. I had to buy the NP4500 five speed and NP241dld transfercase separately, they were $1500 each also nearly new, from rolled trucks.
This time I will not be using a DANA 44. While it was a really good axle choice, I am thinking that it might have been just a little light for the job and I found it necessary to replace bearings and ball-joints about every 100,000 miles.
This time, I decided to leave my name and request list at a major FORD RECYCLER. I wanted a 1997 F350 DANA 60 high pinion left side drop and an 350 ECONOLINE DANA 60 rear with disc brakes.
The rear 60 showed up first and it was out of a roll-over that was only 3 kilometers from the selling dealer. The lot boy was gong way to fast in a cloverleaf and lost "IT" Only days later, the front 60 arrived under a "97 F350 that came from the recycler's auction. The FORD recycler may not have bought the truck if did not have an immediate sale for a major part. The retail was $2700, for the pair, delivered. I like to reduce my stress and have as many components as I can in storage before a project starts.
After allowing my ego to push me into putting a way too big 6.9 into my "R" and looking back, I was an idiot. Yes, the cab had to be cut back 8 inches and the set-back was 38 inches wide (IIRC). I mounted the radiator where it had to be then mounted the 6.9 to fit as close as was possible to the radiator. Once the engine was set in place and clearing the DANA 44 axle I made the engine mounts and the transmission mount/cross-member. This is when the cab was set on the frame and slid forward as far as it could go and up against the FFORD C6 automatic housing. I leveled the cab and then used a four foot long carpenter's level and whilst keeping it level I marked the outline of the engine across the firewall with a felt tipped marker that I had taped to the level underside. This is where commitment to the project happened and I cut out the outline with a plasma cutter.
This is where the cab was slid forward on the frame rails and the fit was very good but there was this rather large hole in the firewall. I was able to limit the cut out to the setback in the firewall.
Many of the other details escape me right now, but if anyone wants a picture, and I don't have any, Mike at magihc1@telus.net owns the R now and he may be able to supply pictures.
I have the sheetmetal tools and experience so building a "dog-house" to accommodate the 6.9 was under $100. Then the big changes started to add up in cubic bucks.
I would never tell anyone what to do, with their truck project, less is best and an engine that is so close to the original and it fits really well is my first choice, now. That would be a Cummins 4bta.
Watch CRAIGSLIST and your local wrecking yards for the engine you would like to have. Leave your name and contact information. This has worked for me on many occasions. It shows that you might be serious and it has been my experience that the recyclers will get on side and may become one of your best assets. Now, I an able to call and the parts get delivered ASAP because many of the guys want to see what the Crazy Binder Guy is doing now.
Yes, I tend to use more FORD components than others, but they work with less fuss, for me. EXAMPLE; The FORD C4 automatic transmissions,. in two styles, have a removable torque-converter housings that allows the C4 to be adapted to more than a few other applications. I have a C4 adapted to a supercharged and fuel injected 1947 Ford Flathead V8.
Try to remember to not rush, do the research and enjoy the build. You might as well have some enjoyment out of it, now, because you cannot go back. I am nearing 70 and the time has gone very quickly and I cannot bring any of it back. On average, the stats suggest that I have about 10+ years if I live in CANADA and just a little more here in BC, making us 11th in the world. Sadly the average age in the USA is 77 and that makes AMERICANS 40th in the world. Our health system makes the difference. I went through 4-5 years of cancer treatment and after having $2.5 million dollars of treatment and medication, I was only out of pocket for the parking charges, ONLY. The parking charges were about $1800 for more than a hundred visits. BTW, I am cancer free for almost five years, now.
I would rather have tools I do not need than to need tools I do not have
Thinking risks being controversial and possibly being offensive

Yard Art
Yard Art

Posts: 50

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:29 pm

Post Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:17 pm

Re: diesel swap

hey guys, I haven't pulled the trigger on a 4bt quite yet, but I figured if in going to do this, I'll do it right ( body off frame, full interior, etc.) and I got to thinking, would it be a good idea to box the frame? the engine will be roughly the same size but put out almost double the torque, is this a recipe for disaster? also, I want to put an air ride suspension under it, will an independent front suspension be heavy duty enough, or can I adapt my front axle to ride and handle well enough?
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