| User | Post |
|
9:36 am
March 10, 2010
|
skizman
| | | |
|  Yard Art | posts 50 |
|
|
I'll be replacing my 4th rear seal that has less than 150 miles and hauled 6 loads of stone. Went out to start jacking up left rear wheel to adjust brakes and the seal was leaking fluid on ground. So a few hours after jacking and cribbing that side….the left wheel seal was leaking all over the ground. Hard to believe after hauling all that stone…the seals both started leaking the day after. I installed the Scotseal seals, but a mechanic said to use National seals cause they're easier to install.
I thought that the rubber part of the seal should be sitting against the beveled edge of the axel, but there is no sign of wear on the beveled edge. Almost seems that the seal isn't resting far enough on the axel. I can't blame loose bearings cause they were tight. Installing the seals….I hit them until they bottomed out on that lip. Maybe I shouldn't bottom them out so they seal farther up on the axel??? Maybe I should get a "speedy sleeve" for each axel???
Your advice is always appreciated!
|
|
|
|
|
9:50 am
March 10, 2010
|
53R110
| | | |
| Yard Art | posts 21 |
|
|
The inner bearing should bottom out on a shoulder on the axle. The seal should ride on that shoulder maybe about 1/4 inch after the bearing, so I would first make sure that the seal is the right diameter. The lips of the seal should be slightly sompressed when its in place. A speedy sleeve might be called for if there is a groove worn in the axle. Some seals have a spring around the inside of the seal lips…Sometimes that spring comes out when installing the seal. If your seal has that spring, make sure its in place before installing the hub on the axle.
|
|
|
10:45 am
March 10, 2010
|
ENGLISHROB
| | eastern canada | |
|  Freshly Restored | posts 738 |
|
|
Post edited 4:46 pm – March 10, 2010 by englishrob
Now I'm not saying you did but it's real easy to catch the seal when going over the axel the hub is heavy
Also when installing the seal its easy to mark the seal when its in place it should still look like it did in the box no marks at all. Now some seals come with a metal sleeve to go on the axel first and there are tools to fit the sleeve and seal which make life easier. I bottom out the seal as well so that should be right
now if you have been doing it for years and know this just tell me to go back to limey land
|
truck mechanic looking for an easier life 1956 S110 ……………………………………n Rob
|
|
|
11:22 am
March 10, 2010
|
skizman
| | | |
| Yard Art | posts 50 |
|
|
Englishrob>>>speaking of limey land….it brings back memories when I was a deep sea diver in the oil fields in the north sea in the 70s. But what I missed the most was the delicious fish and chips in limey land that they served in a rolled up newspaper, and heavily douced with vinnegar. My mouth is watering!
I just talked to a tech for National wheel seals and he said that the seal does not sit against the beveled edge on the axel, and also that I don't need to add a speedy sleeve cause the nat'l seal is made with extra seal rings in it to seal on an old axel. He also said to slip the new seal on the axel to see that it fits snug on it….which is something I didn't do in the past cause it just slipped my mind. PLus smacking the seal in the hub is critical how it's done. I'll have to do it like a surgeon this time.
I'm off to Napa auto parts to order the seals. It will all be done next week. If the new seals leak again….I will for sure be off to the funny farm.
Thankyou!
|
|
|
|
|
11:56 am
March 10, 2010
|
ENGLISHROB
| | eastern canada | |
| Freshly Restored | posts 738 |
|
|
skizman said:
Englishrob>>>speaking of limey land….it brings back memories when I was a deep sea diver in the oil fields in the north sea in the 70s. But what I missed the most was the delicious fish and chips in limey land that they served in a rolled up newspaper, and heavily douced with vinnegar. My mouth is watering!
You don't get that any more. Well the newspaper anyway they said it might poison you well you me and everyone over 30 is proof that they are just killjoys what a better meal free entertainment
|
truck mechanic looking for an easier life 1956 S110 ……………………………………n Rob
|
|
|
1:03 pm
March 10, 2010
|
mag623
| | Merritt B.C. Can. | |
|  Golden Anniversary | posts 1167 |
|
|
Sounds like the seal may be the wrong one, with the hole, too big.
Drive out your inner bearing, and in doing so, the seal will come out, usually unharmed. Try this old seal on the axel housing, to see if it actually fits. It sits over the shoulder of the housing, on the flat, behind where the bearing sits. It should be slightly snug, but not tight. You can see if the seal is damaged where it contacts the axel, and if so, this damage is likely from installing the heavy hub, and nicking the threads of the axel housing. You must use a bit of care when driving a seal into the hub, but it is not piano building. A block of wood should keep the seal safe.
If the inner race(cup) for the inner bearing bearing is not totally bottomed in the hub, the seal will not be in the correct position to seal on the axel. This is a wild shot, but may be important.
How are you filling the rear with oil after you finish assembly? For total protection of your bearings, when replacing with new ones, or washed ones, do a hand packing with a light grease, smear the same on the inside of the seal contact surface. Fill the diff with oil to the drain plug , and a bit extra. Jack up one rear corner, or park on a side hill, and leave it for 30 min. refill the axel, and change sides. Once you have done both sides, level the axel, wait a few minutes, and check the oil level. Both hubs should have enough oil to keep them happy now.
Hope some of this helps find your roblem. Good luck,
Mike
|
 |
Old age and treachery over comes youth and education. If it ain't broke don't fix it? What fun would that be? … OR… If it ain't broke it can't be fixed! Either way, it's no fun! '55 R-164, '52 L-150, '50 L-150 |
|
|
|
3:19 pm
March 10, 2010
|
skizman
| | | |
| Yard Art | posts 50 |
|
|
I guess it's all my fault. First of all, I did not know the inner part of the seal spins, and the seals were dry when I put them on, except for a little oil on the axel. Then add a few knocks on the seal while pushing the wheel on the axel, and this all leads to a bad start. I think I'll wrap tape around the axel threads to help, cause those threads are pretty sharp and will easily cut the seal. I ordered the National seals this time instead of the Scotseal. Good idea Mike about jacking each side up to fill and soak each axel..bearings ect. I will also check the races as you said.
I made a better wheel slider this time. Plywood on ground….6 pieces of 1″ pvc pipe on plywood, and another plywood on top of the pvc. That really made it much easier sliding the wheel on.
Napa wanted 45 bucks each for the seals. I found them on the net at Fleetpride for 31 bucks.
Thankyou again!
|
|
|
|
|
6:54 pm
March 10, 2010
|
mag623
| | Merritt B.C. Can. | |
| Golden Anniversary | posts 1167 |
|
|
Glad you found out why. Those seals seem a bit pricey. Very good idea about tape on the threads. Best of luck.
|
|
Old age and treachery over comes youth and education. If it ain't broke don't fix it? What fun would that be? … OR… If it ain't broke it can't be fixed! Either way, it's no fun! '55 R-164, '52 L-150, '50 L-150 |
|
|
|
8:20 pm
March 10, 2010
|
cornbinder89
| | | |
| Freshly Restored | posts 680 |
|
|
Don't feel too bad, many " Prof mechanics" (myself included) have messed up a wheel seal at one time or another. Stemco (brand) have seals that need a "wear ring" pressed on the spindle. Most others do not. I prefer C/R "Classic" seals as I seam to have good luck installing. There is a tool made for each seal to install. You can get a seal installed without the tool (try useing the old seal to drive the new… that way you are only put pressure on the outside edge, and not on the seal itself). I don't like National ( they are "rubberized" on the outside) I fine they take too much force to install, and as such are easy to damage. Other like them… so you will just have to try and see what works for you. If you have problems look at the spindle and make sure there isn't 1) a wear ring already on the spindle and 2) there isn't a groove already worn into the spindle (the "unitized seals don't ride on the spindle anymore… when you replace the seal, you replace the wear surface) 3) there isn't a little sliver of metal on the place where the bearing "stops" against… if a bearing was run loose. All in all, I hate doing wheel seals…. Messy dirty job… but I have found what works for me, and I stick with that brand.
|
|
|
8:58 am
March 11, 2010
|
skizman
| | | |
| Yard Art | posts 50 |
|
|
Yesterday the tech from Scotseal called me. He recommended a two piece Stemco seal if Scotseals aren't working. Just talked to Stemco and that 2-piece seal isn't available anymore and there is no replacement for it. So National seals are on the way…and were recommended by the ole mechanic at the truck shop. He said use the Nationals cause they're easier to install. Who knows. There is a wear ring on the spindle. Hopefully the new seal will take up the slack. I was ready to order new slip on sleeves but National tech said I didn't need them with their new (unitized) seal.
Guaranteed….this time I will slip the new seal on the spindle to see how it fits.
Good idea to use the old seal to smack on top of the new seal.
I've had nothing but…."seal" on my mind…..I feel like I just got back from Sea World.
Thankyou!
Ski
|
|
|
|
|
11:31 am
March 11, 2010
|
mag623
| | Merritt B.C. Can. | |
| Golden Anniversary | posts 1167 |
|
|
Kinda makes you want to pick up a bat and go hit something on the head.  Back to sea world!, or is that seal world?
Good luck,
Mike
|
|
Old age and treachery over comes youth and education. If it ain't broke don't fix it? What fun would that be? … OR… If it ain't broke it can't be fixed! Either way, it's no fun! '55 R-164, '52 L-150, '50 L-150 |
|
|
|
11:14 pm
March 11, 2010
|
JohnVan
| | | |
| Yard Art | posts 13 |
|
|
I believe the new seals require that you remove any wear ring that was installed with the older 2 piece units. I did not realize this and had a bear of a time trying to get the hub back in place. Felt pretty foolish after I found out what I had done.
My S-1724 had Stemco 2 piece seals on it with a boat-load of RTV around eveything. I did a stupid thing and installed a hub seal before I put the bearing in place. Had to knock out the old seal. I knew better than to try and re-use it but they are pricy and it was getting late. It leaked like a sieve. Had to replace it a couple of weeks later.
Can't remember if i used Scotseals or Nationals. I know at least one wheel is a Scotseal.
Nothing quite like the smell of GL-5 to get the wife's attention.
John
|
|
|
7:44 am
March 12, 2010
|
skizman
| | | |
| Yard Art | posts 50 |
|
|
The best thing about doing something foolish is when you admit it …..and then laugh about it.
|
|
|
|
|
6:22 pm
March 12, 2010
|
ENGLISHROB
| | eastern canada | |
| Freshly Restored | posts 738 |
|
|
one real easy but messy way if you are leaving the wheels on. Jack up truck and with a sheet of plywood or similar put a big hand full of grease on there. The wheels with hub still attached slide out real smooth if you line up axel just right its a joy but like i said messy. but no good on single wheels they become hard to control like an ell
and cornbinder is right i often use the old seal as a drift it's amazing what you don't think off when on here but when you do the job it sort of comes to mind and make sure your shoes are clean
|
truck mechanic looking for an easier life 1956 S110 ……………………………………n Rob
|
|
Truck Talk
FAQ (49)